Old tank syndrome is vanquished in reefing now

[brandon429]

When I critiqued the big work thread I linked it, asked people to factor the pictures they see/same scrutiny applies to my threads so I don't feel I'm unfair in my assessments, if you have specifics I know you will be able to discern causatives very well you're both welcome to post here for sure. I think you guys write well for cause-and-effect reef analyses.

I did have a couple respondents in private message tell me their reef got invaded again several months after their rip clean

so was that a fail of rip cleaning?

my mind sees it this way: they know how to get back into the good lane when they're done playing around.

they've tasted what total tank control looks like, they're probably not concerned much about getting their reef back as soon as they will it.

I have seen a really good sustain rate for the physical changes mentioned prior for sure.

 

[MnFish1]

so was that a fail of rip cleaning?

Yes. It is like someone saying a copper treatment for 30 days is all thats needed to prevent disease. In other words,Copper treatment is great, but its not the only thing needed for quarantine). if you tell someone to correct something - then shouldn't part of that correction be what to do to prevent the problems (whatever they are)? BTW - I have no clue how well rip-cleaning does long-term as compared to other methods. I am not going to have a competition with you - analyzing these problems is not a huge interest of mine. My contribution to the thread was very simple: "I wonder what these tanks looks like 3, 6, 9 etc months later.

 

[BeanAnimal]

again, I'm keeping this thread related to specific pics or threads of outcomes, that is how we keep arguments at bay.

Hi Brandon - you don't need to respond (honestly). You appear to be bumping many of your threads to the top and asking that people only post in agreement to you and that everyone else kindly exit.

It therefore appears that you are asking/demanding that you be free to post advice and opinion at will in threads that you start, without being challenged on any of it.

If that is truly the case, I would suggest that this is not the proper venue. A personal site or blog is more suitable for broadcasting your thoughts, ideas, and opinions without challenge.

Happy reefing.

 

[brandon429]

Please let that be your final parting shot here.

Back to work:

Friends who read to contribute to tank rehab science-
More rehab jobs are in the works in chat. With each post example added/ the resulting bump/ new work requests are made in chat it's a very productive wheel.

Some of these are pretty substantial tank moves and relocations, things like this recent one:

Fiji Cube 32 EXT build/ tank transfer

I thought I would share my new 32g build. Previously running a 20g aio and wanted to upgrade the display size and add a sump. So I decided to follow the rip clean method I found on R2R to transfer corals fish etc into the larger tank. It went perfectly with no ammonia spikes or livestock loss...

www.reef2reef.com

Those jobs are logged because they're on- demand work jobs completed. We can follow up with the owners updates to track rip clean patterning.

I'm asking for work load jobs, not external critique for pages.

What I'm requesting here and what's helpful and pertinent to the thread would be rounding up tank transfer jobs or tank rescue jobs to work live time.


If someone else wants to use a competing method, by all means do and we'll log that outcome for comparison.

As long as we're doing actual live time tank work, like was completed above recently using just this method here, that's what the thread is about.

Debating over analyst's different cause and effect passions isn't the focus of the thread. We're an example- based thread.

His use of our method here in this thread wasn't to rescue a challenge tank, it was to skip cycle transfer a full reef into a new reef tank.

But he did what we do here: rip cleaning reverses old tank syndrome

rip cleaning fixes many reef tank invasion issues

rip cleaning can be used by an unlimited number of readers to skip cycle transfer their entire reef any way they'd like to handle it, using no testing for cycle params.

We demonstrate a method of required reef tank compliance. I have the right to build up that method in peace here and solely focus on our results: are they good or bad results

For long term tracking subscribe to those tank owners for post updates on the rip clean tank.

 

[MnFish1]

Please let that be your final parting shot here.

Back to work:

Friends who read to contribute to tank rehab science-
More rehab jobs are in the works in chat. With each post example added/ the resulting bump/ new work requests are made in chat it's a very productive wheel.

Some of these are pretty substantial tank moves and relocations, things like this recent one:

Fiji Cube 32 EXT build/ tank transfer

I thought I would share my new 32g build. Previously running a 20g aio and wanted to upgrade the display size and add a sump. So I decided to follow the rip clean method I found on R2R to transfer corals fish etc into the larger tank. It went perfectly with no ammonia spikes or livestock loss...

www.reef2reef.com

Those jobs are logged because they're on- demand work jobs completed. We can follow up with the owners updates to track rip clean patterning.

I'm asking for work load jobs, not external critique for pages.

What I'm requesting here and what's helpful and pertinent to the thread would be rounding up tank transfer jobs or tank rescue jobs to work live time.


If someone else wants to use a competing method, by all means do and we'll log that outcome for comparison.

As long as we're doing actual live time tank work, like was completed above recently using just this method here, that's what the thread is about.

Debating over analyst's different cause and effect passions isn't the focus of the thread. We're an example- based thread.

His use of our method here in this thread wasn't to rescue a challenge tank, it was to skip cycle transfer a full reef into a new reef tank.

But he did what we do here: rip cleaning reverses old tank syndrome

rip cleaning fixes many reef tank invasion issues

rip cleaning can be used by an unlimited number of readers to skip cycle transfer their entire reef any way they'd like to handle it, using no testing for cycle params.

We demonstrate a method of required reef tank compliance. I have the right to build up that method in peace here and solely focus on our results: are they good or bad results

For long term tracking subscribe to those tank owners for post updates on the rip clean tank.

Ok - so it's unclear to whom this was asked/stated - but - all I asked is what is the medium to long-term prognosis for these tanks? I thought someone would know. The title of this thread does not say 'post your rip clean results' it says old tank syndrome is vanquished. Your intial post in the thread is not what you said above - and it is a discussion forum. Remember - any post you want to report - thats what mods, etc are for.

 

[brandon429]

If I discuss anything at all with you, or answer sincerely, an argument will ensue due to back and forth until my thread is closed- that's already been done in my simple live rock skip cycle thread that was harming nobody. Five years of work

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

This is a testless cycling thread, we don't want ammonia testing here for any job if possible, because we are teaching reefers/readers that moving live rocks system to system does not restart the cycle: many in our community don't understand that rule and feel that any tank being setup simply...

www.reef2reef.com

first four years, peace

Good jobs all centered around one theme on file, thankful and happy reef owners.

the last five pages, once I responded? Pure attack, but the responses were just too harsh= so closed





I'd like a different outcome here, and for the rest of my threads. The only option I can do is not respond, I'm that restricted.

Onto poor river management:

To readers willing to investigate alternate, uncommon methods and claims and patterning in Old Tank Syndrome biology, using my lens-


I wanted to show you a natural eutrophic setting I just saw while blasting an ebike down a trail like a madman.

Some of you have planted tanks like this. Handy natural comparison



The could-be-beautiful but as usual underfunded/undermaintained Lady Bird Lake (Colorado River portion of downtown Austin)

These folks are kayaking in moneran utopia, several dogs are lost each summer here.

A blue- green sheen is developing, it'll look dyed by noon. Fascinating combo of:

Flow path bottle necking slowing throughput

Choking hydrillas and various invasive plants


a degree of garbage has compounded in the slow flow, extreme silt at the bottom. I expect hydrogen sulfide pocketing 100%, there are gas zones in this bog river bed that can kill, no joke

Extreme temps

this river section is eutrophic, it needs remediation. They've slowed it, but that's like someone lightly topically cleaning a sludge tank, leaving the thick protein sheen on top as proof of missed organics to remove

That's why all our work is for disassembly- cleaning examples, we investigate only that method as applied to reef tank lifespan control.



Extreme direct light, nutrient compounding, and no natural removal actions are coming due in that river

It'll compound until they're forced to act, it's that simple.


Did you know readers that it's possible to rip clean entire sections of a river? Or an entire city lake? There are companies that do what we do on a large scale, it's searchable. Sometimes they drain, scrape, refill. Like we do

They install dyes sometimes, post rip clean, that alter light band penetrance % to slow algae growths in places of no shade... they modulate light power, sludge rate, flow pathing for temp control, and + oxygenation rates in cleaned up lakes using air stones the size of two barrel drums. That's fascinating in my opinion, and a fitting example here



Where we use common peroxide, they use blaster power potassium permanganate and other strong oxidizers to hammer down organics into an easily- removable suspended pulp, then they remove those aggregated solids somehow


Our opening paragraph and all following examples added (within the accepted scope of this thread) are aimed at complete removal of aggregated and suspended solid waste in order to arrest the eutrophic condition, and force in the oligotrophic one.

I wouldn't get wet in Lady Bird lake for anything less than a fee of six hundred dollars

Predicted coliform count, any ole' day we want to check: will be gut-busting high.

Double my fee. There's so much intestine bacteria in here I'll require twelve hundred dollars to submerge in the very waters fellow Austinites will happily recreate in, free of charge.


Hey is anyone reading out on the trail today??? Look for an ebiker thumb swiping near zilker

At the end of that long trail:

 

[brandon429]

MN there is one communication pathway I'll always keep open for you, I give you my word we can have a yearslong discussion thread where I'm fully engaged once you make a thread about old tank syndrome

In your way


And run it out with some examples, and different findings.

Then you bring those findings and post them here, I'll be very happy and that's the language nobody can argue with. Just examples, and patterns you've found, that are different from mine.

Our theories don't align, for sure

Now show us how patterns in OTS tank fixing biology are different, use recent examples.

gotta fix some tanks, using a better way...That's what we did here the whole time. It's our language, a reflection on patterns from jobs we did or noted

‐‐------------- 10/15/24

This job was interesting because it is still live running, on demand remote tank cpr is underway using our methods collected here (it's not a wrecked tank it's a seam-break pre move transfer

Are my tanks seams beginning to fail?

My tank is less than 2 years old. Picked it up brand new from a LFS. The other day I noticed some sand getting in the seam of the front panel. If I touch this area of the glass a little more sand falls down into it. What do you guys think? Anyone have any luck with Red Seas customer service? Do...

www.reef2reef.com

Wanted to show how the exact steps we use to completely rip clean eutrophic tanks into oligotrophic ones, can be used to life preserve an already oligotrophic tank should an emergency need arise

It's application here:

-the study of reef tank cpr predictability. Per that thread, did the reef tank in question produce the predicted results? Finality not attained yet as of today; that tub isn't the final vessel for his reef he'll need to run another skip cycle transfer soon

-we did dental work on his algae spots, that's preemptive reef tank dentistry demonstrated.

- this elemental reduction is how we control old tank syndrome; we either clean out or totally replace all surrounding biofilter surface area beyond the scope of this core heartbeat material he's keeping alive using the rules of OTS reversal/ control.

-Heck, why not show at least once a perfectly positive tank, being kept positive, by the harshest action in reefing (an instant rip clean, no warning) per old cycling science rules (by instantly removing all core surrounding surfaces area, we are at risk of cycle crash they claim)

We will see, the job isn't done yet, that rip cleans refresh, reinvigorate, and renew via increased feed input allowance quite a boost of coral mass. We didn't lose quality of reef during holding: we gained positive mass. We used this as an exercise in protein/clean food recycling to build coral mass. His whole reef is currently in an exercise program that will leave it stronger for the new final tank because we're feed/ water changing using flushing science. Our whole thread here is flushing and reduction environmental science.

 

[Garf]

the last five pages, once I responded? Pure attack, but the responses were just too harsh= so closed

Not how I remember it, lol;

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

the opening meme on page 1 is a play on the fact that 99% of all cyclers think moving live rock from one tank to another starts over the cycle. I would say the smashing majority of any example here has reefers that didn't know that, which is why they're linked here. *that's good feedback and I...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

Not how I remember it, lol;

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

the opening meme on page 1 is a play on the fact that 99% of all cyclers think moving live rock from one tank to another starts over the cycle. I would say the smashing majority of any example here has reefers that didn't know that, which is why they're linked here. *that's good feedback and I...

www.reef2reef.com

@brandon429 - disagreement is not 'attack'. And - asking a question is not 'attack'. If you have felt attacked by me - I apologize sincerely. And - in fact - we agree on most things - so I'm not sure where/why this topic was resurrected in my notifications.

 

[MnFish1]

MN there is one communication pathway I'll always keep open for you, I give you my word we can have a yearslong discussion thread where I'm fully engaged once you make a thread about old tank syndrome

In your way


And run it out with some examples, and different findings.

Then you bring those findings and post them here, I'll be very happy and that's the language nobody can argue with. Just examples, and patterns you've found, that are different from mine.

Our theories don't align, for sure

Now show us how patterns in OTS tank fixing biology are different, use recent examples.

gotta fix some tanks, using a better way...That's what we did here the whole time. It's our language, a reflection on patterns from jobs we did or noted

By the way - I have always said - if you have a problem with something I've posted - merely report it. I think it's somewhat unfair to blame me for getting your thread closed - and if I remember - there were a number of disagreements with various people about the topic. However - Were I to start the thread you requested - I would want to know 'what is your definition of old tank syndrome' - it seems vague, probably is a synonym for 'poor maintenence' - and the solution is 'better maintenence'. But - since I am not sure - IDK - So- IF you're saying cleaning rocks, etc is vanquishing old tank syndrome - you're probably right - i.e. doing maintenance that should have been done all along.

 

[Fishingman047901]

Quote"
drain down water and catch some of it while its clean for reuse if you do not want to make all new water. We prefer all new water matching temp and salinity when possible

house fish you catch and inverts in clean water totes, not with live rock (sometimes detritus waste is stuck in rocks and can kill fish in holding, our goal is to remove this liability)

corals can go in with fish and inverts keep substrates separate


now the tank is mostly drained, remove live rocks and twist-swish roughly in new or old -saltwater- to eject all pent up waste, you’ll be amazed how much every live rock takes up in the interstices, flush out the pores.

now the tank is 1/3 muddy brown water, and old sand. Take the entire tank down and clean the glass and pumps, scum free.

either replace the sand with new, or use the old, but prepare either one exactly this way: take portions of sand and rinse clean in a bucket under tap water until the sand is snowglobe clean. Final rinse is RO water, to eject the tap. Compile this clean sand for use.
*******do Not put a handful of old sand in the new tank******
End Quote

OMG, does anybody actually do this just for fun?
I do remember removing everything maybe 30 years ago just to see what was growing under my Reverse Undergravel filter but I don't think I really had to do it. Maybe I did, I don't remember because the space under the UGF was filled like it was the last time I removed it to move here 3 years ago.

My Son N Law here is removing the UG filter plates for the move here. You can see it is all mud but I think it was untouched for about 20 years or so. I removed most of that mud when I re instaled everything here. I did use most of the old water but some of it I used to rinse the mud out of the dolomite gravel. I never use sand and would not use gravel without using a reverse UG filter.

@Paul B I'm preparing to rip clean my 20+ yr old tank and I have an undergravel filter that I want to make reverse flow. Can you help me with the specifics? ie what you use - power heads, canister filter output, as well as gph? I have ugf plates just like yours in the picture. Thanks for your help. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[Paul B]

@Paul B I'm preparing to rip clean my 20+ yr old tank and I have an undergravel filter that I want to make reverse flow. Can you help me with the specifics? ie what you use - power heads, canister filter output, as well as gph? I have ugf plates just like yours in the picture. Thanks for your help. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Fishingman, Yes I can but not on this thread. PM me for details.