Planning to upgrade, how to do it best

Common Blevil

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So i have i 15 gallon tank(easy, relatively no maintenance, no skimmer, no sump, white light), and my dormitory administration allowed me to have the tank "as big as i can provide for and not obstruct my roommates space". So I'm planning to make the same tank, but bigger, either going for 35 g (126 l) or 40 g (160 l) tank. The first is 31.5*13.7*17.7 inches(80*35*45 cm). It is ok, but smaller and i don't like it's footprint, too small and too high, fish will not like this i think. The 40 g is better, because it is 40*15.7*15.7(100*40*40cm), so bigger footprint and more place for territory for the fish. But the big sturdy table i have is only 31.5*31.5 inches(80*80 cm). I've planned to buy a piece of chipboard to compensate and to put on a table under a tank(in addition to a soft aquarium mat). Do you think I is a good idea long term? I don't think anything will go wrong, I've seen wooden stands for freshwater having a platform on top go a few inches on either side, this is basically the same, but DIY.



Also about moving the tank. I already have the sand, it's aquaforest bio sand. Bought it when starting, didn't like and put away for a year. Now it is washed from mineral dust and is waiting to be ressurected with provided bottles and my sand from the tank(i will wash it from detritus but I can't afford not to reuse live sand)



Will it be ok to do the move in one day, aka i put my 15 gallon under that table, put a 40/35 on the table, make a salt mix with 90% aquaforest reef and 10% reef crystals, put dry sand in there wait a day or half a day and then add everything from 15 gallon?

Or is it better to have 15 gallon stay under the table for longer, maybe a few days to a week and add everything gradually? I will be doing this all in summer, so I'm not scared of something getting too cold.



Also, i will need to buy a lot of dry rock, to make cave network and crevasses, because I'm trying to experiment with pairing fish, such as chrysiptera damsels, tailspot blennies, or even flameback angels, and they should be fine in a long tank of that size with lots of strategically put rockwork. The thing is, LFS have real ocean dry rock (not some kind of clay based poop from a brand, rocks from the ocean), but they got their prices double since last year, and the rock looks like literal pieces of lava, but white(no little crevasses , just a piece of rock with some pores) . So I'm thinking marko rock, not so good, heavier, but has crevices for microfauna and cheap. But even marko rock is going to cost some money for that size of setup. Will it be ok to add it a few month in as i will have the money? I'd like to transfer the livestock to the new tank as fast as possible and not wait additional few months to have money for rocks and then do the transfer.



Also i read a lot of people struggling to keep their phosphates above 0 with marco rock, and i already have troubles with phosphates caused by my macro, softies and dino+cyano bloom(i think reef crystals is the reason, never had dinos and cyano with aquaforest reef salt, this high alkalinity is the bane of my existence), so how true is phosphate absorbing capabilities of marco and how much i should worry? That's probably all, if i will remember anything else i will add it.
 

EgotisticObeseChihuahua

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The stand is worrisome but depending on how strong the base is then it should be fine. I wouldn’t stretch the budget for new sand because when you move the sand or mix it up then you are releasing a lot of dormant stuff that can mess with the waters chemistry. That’s why I wouldn’t recommend using the same sand. It would be best to start anew with the sand if possible. Macro rock is what I used and I have trouble keeping my phosphates down, so i never experienced Any issues with it. (I do feed pretty heavy) though I imagine it shouldn’t be an issue with your plans for more fish. If you have the time and patience then it would be best to cycle the desired tank until it has enough nitrifying bacteria to hold a stable cycle, so that your livestock will be a lot less stressed during the transfer.
 
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Common Blevil

Common Blevil

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The stand is worrisome but depending on how strong the base is then it should be fine. I wouldn’t stretch the budget for new sand because when you move the sand or mix it up then you are releasing a lot of dormant stuff that can mess with the waters chemistry. That’s why I wouldn’t recommend using the same sand. It would be best to start anew with the sand if possible. Macro rock is what I used and I have trouble keeping my phosphates down, so i never experienced Any issues with it. (I do feed pretty heavy) though I imagine it shouldn’t be an issue with your plans for more fish. If you have the time and patience then it would be best to cycle the desired tank until it has enough nitrifying bacteria to hold a stable cycle, so that your livestock will be a lot less stressed during the transfer.
Thanks for the answer. The "stand base" itself is really strong, it has 2 inch thick metal legs, 1.5 inch thick frame, which has 1.5 inch thick chipboard on top. That's the reason I'm planning to have a bigger tank, if it was an ordinary office table, the 15 gallon would be the max volume before the table would collapse

The sand itself houses a lot of microfauna, my shrimp goby was able to survive off it alone for a few months until started coming out from the rocks, so I want to transfer some of it. Also there are no visible anaerobic zones in the sand, that are the real problem in such situations. That said, i don't want to just take it out and put in the new tank, i will wash it with tank water a few times, to remove the detritus. Also the sand itself was live oolithic sand and the same sand but dried, I can't find it anymore and i want that microfauna.

About cycling, I don't want to remove old rock, i still have a few pieces of resurrected real dry ocean rock and a crapton of macroalgae, so i think the main problem will be keeping enough nutrients, and not be afraid of them. Also, if buying some rock before the start, would it be wise to cycle it in a bucket with light and some rock from the tank? Light for the algaes to start appearing, the faster they appear, the faster they go away. Also, i think my newly added segmented blenny would be glad to have some algae.


I think for now i may not wait like a month for cycling, but add everything gradually. Put the tank, make the saltwater , wait. Wash the live and dry sand, mix them together, wait. After the muck(if any) will be filtered out, I'll add the live rock and livestock.

Still waiting for advices)
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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That isn't a safe plan we have examples of sandbed waste killing systems. It's stressful because you're upwelling stratified waste and putting the new layers in a system that thrives on cleanliness

Your sand offered no sustenance for that fish. If you stopped feeding him totally he would die, because tank sand sifted over and over is devoid save for incidental bugs. This plan brings on invasions at a high rate

If you want a safe tank transfer, don't customize:


Rinse the sand totally, using tap water. The goby sifts because that's its design: it isn't getting much food at all from eating waste. It eats tank provided food, don't value anything in your sandbed. The live rock reseeds the new sand, not the old sand, transfer none. Do opposite of your plan for max safety and outcome.

All jobs there are instant skip cycle transfers, 350 or so completed inspectable jobs. Don't transfer one teaspoon of old sand, it is potential harm and six bugs the live rock would reseed anyway. Not worth the risk to preserve. The reason there's only one tank transfer thread available, and not two: only full rinsing works without occasional massive crashes, and nobody wants to run a thread where someone's ten thousand dollar reef dies and then you have to account for that in public as the thread maestro. It's not possible to customize the approach and get a safer outcome than that above.

You'd make use of your clean sand by feeding the new version tank better than one with half maxed out old sand, and this renewed feeding is what benefits the goby. It isn't in transferring waste- that only seems like a benefit: it isn't. Not one gram of old sand installed is ironically the safest transfer you can make. Or results will never skew because the risk is in the detritus.
 
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Common Blevil

Common Blevil

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That isn't a safe plan we have examples of sandbed waste killing systems. It's stressful because you're upwelling stratified waste and putting the new layers in a system that thrives on cleanliness

Your sand offered no sustenance for that fish. If you stopped feeding him totally he would die, because tank sand sifted over and over is devoid save for incidental bugs. This plan brings on invasions at a high rate

If you want a safe tank transfer, don't customize:


Rinse the sand totally, using tap water. The goby sifts because that's its design: it isn't getting much food at all from eating waste. It eats tank provided food, don't value anything in your sandbed. The live rock reseeds the new sand, not the old sand, transfer none. Do opposite of your plan for max safety and outcome.

All jobs there are instant skip cycle transfers, 350 or so completed inspectable jobs. Don't transfer one teaspoon of old sand, it is potential harm and six bugs the live rock would reseed anyway. Not worth the risk to preserve. The reason there's only one tank transfer thread available, and not two: only full rinsing works without occasional massive crashes, and nobody wants to run a thread where someone's ten thousand dollar reef dies and then you have to account for that in public as the thread maestro. It's not possible to customize the approach and get a safer outcome than that above.

You'd make use of your clean sand by feeding the new version tank better than one with half maxed out old sand, and this renewed feeding is what benefits the goby. It isn't in transferring waste- that only seems like a benefit: it isn't. Not one gram of old sand installed is ironically the safest transfer you can make. Or results will never skew because the risk is in the detritus.
I wanted to write a long rant about how i disagree on some aspects, but decided not to and keep it relatively short.

I did sand transfer on a young system before and nothing bad happened. This system will be year old (young) when i will do the transfer, so i don't think about something bad happening. I even did a rescape a few months ago, disturbing all the sandbed in the tank, like mixing it a few times, moving it around, etc. Nothing except already ill cleaner shrimp died, corals even puffed up more for some time. Yes, water was cloudy for a day and a half.

But i agree that transferring sand from a bigger and older system is not really a good idea.

Also about my shrimp goby. I he wasn't eating the waste, because shrimp gobies are predators, but pods, small burrowing crustaceans and worms were keeping him alive while he was hiding and not taking any food. Granted, he didn't eat animals only from the sand, but he wasn't coming out from the rocks much either. Also the sand was live and i don't want to start sterile as much as possible. Didn't have great success with such starting.


But we'll see, maybe i will be wrong and something bad will happen, who knows?)
 

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