Quick Question About Plumbing "Bean Animal" Overflow Into Sump

[TangerineSpeedo]

OK, OK... I will answer your ? and just ignore everyone else. LOL...
As seen buy the responses, there are many ways to skin a cat, but only one way to skin a saber toothed @BeanAnimal.
The first two pipes in a Bean or Herbie are the same. The first being the lowest one in the overflow, I run one with a strainer, but not required. That runs directly into your mechanical filtration device. The second pipe which will be higher than the main (first). This is where I run my water level at, just trickling over the edge. I run the second pipe submerged into the sump. You can choose the run this into your mechanical filtration or fuge or wherever. These two pipes alone will be a silent system. The Bean animal has a third E-drain which separates the two systems. This third pipe, which sits higher than the first two, is a true emergency drain. It should never see water. Even when the pumps start after feeding and the first pipe has not started a full siphon, the second pipe should be able to take the overflow. The third pipe should discharge into your sump above the water level as a noise indicator. Now as some have posted previously, the noise (air suck) should be louder than any waterfall noise into your sump. This may be the case on some instances but not all, and probably not most. For example, under normal running conditions as described above (slight trickle into pipe two). Lets say a snail completely blocks pipe two. Your water will rise until it just trickles over your third drain. If your third drain is submerged, you will never know the difference, it may be months or never. If there is a catastrophic failure in both drains one and two, than yes, it will create a big sucking noise.
You could also run a level indicator in your overflow attached to a controller to sound an alarm or use a simple cork in a tube on a stick to indicate the water level in your overflow.
-T

 

[Fish Fan]

The Bean animal has a third E-drain which separates the two systems. This third pipe, which sits higher than the first two, is a true emergency drain. It should never see water. Even when the pumps start after feeding and the first pipe has not started a full siphon, the second pipe should be able to take the overflow. The third pipe should discharge into your sump above the water level as a noise indicator.

Thank you so much for your help and reply! This is exactly what I was thinking and trying to explain!

Now as some have posted previously, the noise (air suck) should be louder than any waterfall noise into your sump.

Thank you for mentioning this. I was getting frustrated previously because I did not realize that many were talking about the noise from air flow, and not only the noise created from the water running through the third drain (in an emergency situation, only).

Now as some have posted previously, the noise (air suck) should be louder than any waterfall noise into your sump. This may be the case on some instances but not all, and probably not most. For example, under normal running conditions as described above (slight trickle into pipe two). Lets say a snail completely blocks pipe two. Your water will rise until it just trickles over your third drain. If your third drain is submerged, you will never know the difference, it may be months or never. If there is a catastrophic failure in both drains one and two, than yes, it will create a big sucking noise.

Yes!!!! This is exactly what I was trying to describe! If you're first two pipes in a Bean Animal setup get plugged, maybe just slightly, you'd have no way to know if your third pipe is submerged and plumbed so that it is as silent as the first two drains. <<This is exactly what I've been trying to ask about

It now seems to me that you'd want your third, E-drain pipe to be higher than the other two SO IT MAKES AS MUCH NOISE AS POSSIBLE, whether that's air or water. I mean you want to hear the E-drain if it's running, right?? This is what I'm asking about.

Thank you very much for your reply and help!

 

[Fish Fan]

I built my sump with a kit that had three holes that go into the filter sock area. I ran all 3 pipes into it, the two active drains run all the way to the bottom of the boil box while emergency drain is above the water. I ended up changing out the U on the trickle drain to a T that sets the water height in the overflow box and I also took the U off of my full siphon drain and run it wide open throttled back a bit by the valve. The only noise I hear is water running over the last baffle in the sump. Yes, if the drain clogs, you will hear the emergency drain splashing and making all kings of gurgling noises. Hope this helps.

I have been looking more closely at your pics; thank you again for posting them! Your setup is much like I'm imagining. Could I please ask where the Tee in your return line is going? Is that for two return nozzles, or do you feed a reactor or 'fuge or something with the Tee?

And, as you've described, your emergency drain pipe where it comes into the sump is intentionally shorter than the other two. This is what I'm thinking. This is believe is the correct setup, right?

Thank you again for your help!

 

[19Mateo83]

I have been looking more closely at your pics; thank you again for posting them! Your setup is much like I'm imagining. Could I please ask where the Tee in your return line is going? Is that for two return nozzles, or do you feed a reactor or 'fuge or something with the Tee?

And, as you've described, your emergency drain pipe where it comes into the sump is intentionally shorter than the other two. This is what I'm thinking. This is believe is the correct setup, right?

Thank you again for your help!

Yes, the T in the return line is for dual returns. Each one is adjustable via ball valve so I can tune the flow to the left or right as needed. My return pump is a 800gph DC pump run at 80%. Since I run a gyre on the right side of my tank I have most of the flow tuned to the left side. So far with this setup plumbed like it is, it’s absolutely fool proof and runs flawlessly…. The corals seem to like it too.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you! This is finally the reply that made it 'click' for my old and sometimes dim noggin!

So you are saying, that the third emergency drain is obviously silent when it's not running, but when it does start to run, then it will draw so much air that THE AIR will be my alarm that something is going wrong?

I do very much appreciate your help, I'm sorry if my previous reply seemed rude, but I am sincerely trying to understand this. Your help is very much appreciated; thank you again for your time and help!

Apologies if my comments sounded rude or condescending. Your original post quoted in part below suggested you wanted a concise answer to your question - which is what most people gave you. I don't believe anyone had the intent of being rude. You said:

Would I be better off to go with the two hole option, and plumb my emergency drain pipe in such a way that I'd hear it if it was in use? Or am I making too much out of this?

Just so it's clear the answer to your first question is 'no'. And the answer to the second one is 'yes'. I would guess that nearly all commercial sumps with Beananimal overflows (I.e. not home made) have all 3 pipes going into the same compartment under the water line. There is no reason not to do it this way IMHO.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you very much for your reply!

Is this for the Herbie or Bean Animal or both? Either way, if your emergency line is in use, how would you ever know if it doesn't make noise? The flow through the system would be exactly the same, sure, you'd bypass some parts of your sump or filtration, but flow would keep going, and you'd know you have a problem because you'd hear the water from the emergency pipe.

Maybe I'm old school or maybe I'm delusional, but what I'm saying about the emergency drain making noise makes sense to me. If I go forward with this project, I am at this point looking towards having my two main lines run into my sump, and then having the emergency pipe just dump into my skimmer section. I really think this is correct, and I'm surprised to be getting some ambiguous answer. Maybe I'm not asking my question as cleary as possible.

Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!!

Sorry - I meant all 3 drains should be in the same place for the bean animal. The emergency pipe (if most or all of the water is going down it) will be quite loud.

 

[Fish Fan]

Apologies if my comments sounded rude or condescending. Your original post quoted in part below suggested you wanted a concise answer to your question - which is what most people gave you. I don't believe anyone had the intent of being rude.

No worries at all! I didn't mean to say anyone here was rude, (well, except one person who was kind of rude lol!) I apologized if I seemed rude I'm just trying to understand this, I thought it would be such a simple thing to ask lol! But I do very much appreciate your help!

Just so it's clear the answer to your first question is 'no'. And the answer to the second one is 'yes'. I would guess that nearly all commercial sumps with Beananimal overflows (I.e. not home made) have all 3 pipes going into the same compartment under the water line. There is no reason not to do it this way IMHO.

Thank you for this straight-forward answer. This is totally not what I was thinking, so it just didn't 'click' with me when you first replied, but I think I understand now. I do agree that a lot of commercial sumps I'm seeing have three inputs all going to the same place. I just wanted to be sure this was a recommended setup. Thank you again for your help!

 

[MnFish1]

No worries at all! I didn't mean to say anyone here was rude, (well, except one person who was kind of rude lol!) I apologized if I seemed rude I'm just trying to understand this, I thought it would be such a simple thing to ask lol! But I do very much appreciate your help!


Thank you for this straight-forward answer. This is totally not what I was thinking, so it just didn't 'click' with me when you first replied, but I think I understand now. I do agree that a lot of commercial sumps I'm seeing have three inputs all going to the same place. I just wanted to be sure this was a recommended setup. Thank you again for your help!

No worries, and no issues. I would say - that just having a commercial sump doesn't mean one doesn't have to pay attention.. And you didn't seem rude.