Seachem Reef Fusion 2 part. Please help.

[Biznizface]

Hi I am new here like 10 minutes ago. So Hi.

Have had an old 24g JBJ nano set up for just over 4 years now and am still loving the hobby.

Have recently got my KH stable using bicarb but my calcium does still need raising every few days.

I am trying to get parameters steady in my nano before I upgrade to a Signature 900 in a couple of months.

Am reluctant to go the whole doser balling route at moment until I set up my signature.

Went to my LFS Reef Dreams in Winchester yesterday who suggested using Seachem Reef fusion 2 part. The directions are quite vague saying to dose it every 1-2 days so guy in Reef dreams suggested dosing the first part one day and the second part the next day and so on. I have approx 75 litres so that would be 3ml of each part alternating part one one day then part two the next.

He said that continuing to dose bicarb in my auto top up wasn't good as you get to much settlement in the container etc.

Anyone used reef fusion successfully can give me any advice regarding this ?

Here are the directions on product..

Dose aquarium every 1-2 days. Shake well before using. Add 1 mL of Reef Fusion 1™ per 25 L (6.5 US gallons) of water. (For reference purposes, the cap holds 5 mL.) Add this to a high current area of the tank. Wait a few minutes, then add Reef Fusion 2™ in the same manner, 1 mL per 25 L (6.5 US gallons), after shaking well. It is preferred that the two products be added to separate locations in the tank. This dose contributes 4 mg/L of calcium, and 0.176 meq/L of alkalinity. Never mix Reef Fusion 1™ with Reef Fusion 2™ directly.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Welcome to R2R!!! Glad you're here!

First, what are your parameters? We need sg, alk, calcium, nitrate and phosphate and your alk and calc consumption. Mg if you have it.
A couple things, alkalinity is more than just bicarbonate but that's a good place to start at least, so you're on the right track to start dosing the compounds that make up alkalinity.
It will be a little tougher to keep super stable parameters in a nano compared to your upgrade, but that will definitely teach you how to keep them steady!
The directions on Fusion 1 and 2 have to be vague since everyone's tank is different; Seachem doesn't know what consumption rates are so they can't tell you how much or how often to dose alkalinity and calcium.

So the reason *not* to continue using bicarb alone for alkalinity is not just because it leaves residue in the container, it's because you need carbonate also.
HCO3- = H+ and CO32-, the -representing a negative charge and + a positive charge, with carbonate being used to form the calcium carbonate skeleton, so every time you added bicarb, the bicarb would convert to hydrogen and carbonate in an unequal proportion as the carbonate was being used for your corals. And you also left a lot of sodium around as well, but forgetting that and continuing, you should add both parts on the same day because calcium and carbonate have to be used together. Just wait a few minutes and add the other part.

So how are you measuring consumption? You are almost there man.... Once you know your daily, or every other day, or third day's loss of alkalinity and calcium, you will know how much and how often, to dose the 2 part solutions of alkalinity and calcium.
Make sense?

 

[Biznizface]

Hi thanks for the reply.

I'm not sure what daily consumption is although my alk def depletes quite quick hence why I've been using bicarbonate of soda in my ATO water.

Parameters are:

SG 1.025
Calc 420
Mag 1480
Phos 0-0.04 D-D test kit
Nitrate always been little high around 25 mg/l. Have been using carbon dosing redsea nopox to bring this down.

I've been thinking lately that my live rock is clogged being 4 years old and maybe the biological filtration isn't what it was.

Am going to try some siporax rings stacked to try and get a good bacteria source which hopefully will break down nitrates better.

Really frustrated because I've tried a few SPS frags lately a plating monti (doing ok) green tabling acro (practically dead and stripped) also have a sunset montipora encrusting but it's green polyps haven't extended nowhere near as much as when I got it.

Got an AI Prime light a few months ago now really thought that would be the final piece of the puzzle because I always thought my weekly water change kept my parameters good. Have now learnt my alk is consumed and probably goes down one a day say from 8 to 7 unless I add bicarbonate of soda as explained.

Am not confident using the seachem product will help keep my alk steady initially whilst figuring out the dosing of it would it still be OK to keep adding the buffer to my ATO water or not ?

 

[nervousmonkey]

OK, you do actually know what the daily consumption is; how much your alkalinity decreases in a day, or your calcium in one day. One thing to remember is that alkalinity *looks* like it's being used up (or depleted/consumed/whatever we call it) faster than calcium because there is a lot more calcium than alkalinity in our water. For example, a drop in calcium from say, 440 to 420, or just a 20 ppm drop, equals a 2.8 dKH drop. So it looks like alkalinity is the only thing being used but calcium always gets used at the same rate that alkalinity does (completely discounting magnesium and strontium for making the conversation easier).
Your water parameters look great, even the nitrates. How long have you been using nopox for? That should take at least 4-6 weeks to start working... I agree that the NO3 is a little high, but it's actually OK there too.
For your rocks, just get a turkey baster or something else like an unused powerhead, point it at your rocks and let fly. Turn your water brown and then suction it out and do a water change. Keep your rocks clean and you'll be fine. Siporax will help, but you'll eventually need to clean the rocks, or else they will start releasing all the buildup and your nitrates and phosphates will just get higher and higher....

What is in your tank besides the SPS frags you listed that would be consuming that much alkalinity? Is your tank stuffed full of corals? Do you have a lot of coralline algae? That will definitely eat up your alkalinity.
As far as the Reef Fusion 1 and 2, they will definitely keep your levels up enough. I use them and I can keep alk and calcium right where I want them to be. Remember, you add 3 mL per 75L to get your alkalinity to increase by 0.176 mEq/L, or 0.493 dKH, so to get your dKH one full degree higher, you just need to double that original dose to get your alkalinity to go from 7 to 8. So you need to add 6 mL per day, if your alkalinity is being used/consumed at the rate of 1 dKH per day. If you needed it to increase by 2 dKH, just add 12 mL of Reef Fusion part 2, and 12 mL of RF part 1. That's it man, and definitely don't just keep adding bicarb to your ATO water. You need the carbonate part of the alkalinity also, which you get in Reef Fusion....

You will be FINE using the SeaChem products. Do this: test your alkalinity now, get some fresh ATO water without bicarb in it and use that. Don't add anything to your tank except for food for fish, wait for 2 days, then measure alkalinity again. Now you know the amount of alkalinity that has been used over two days, and every two days, just use reef fusion and add the amount that was used up back into your tank. Does that make sense???

 

[Biznizface]

Thanks for such a great reply.. I am learning a lot already on here !

I am pretty sure my alk goes down approx 1 a day say from 8 to 7 not totally sure as not been using the bicarb soda that long just over a week. I will do as you suggest and start just adding plain RO again to my ATO. I'm pretty sure long term adding of buffer to the ATO water can't be good for the pump also.

I have been using nopox around 2 weeks, my nitrate was very dark pink on the salifert test kit before I used it so it is working.

I do from time to time blow the rocks off with a turkey baster. I never do all the rock work at once maybe half one week and the other half another week. I only have 3 larger rocks 2 I could remove and give a good clean ? Do u suggest this then if so clean them in what ? Water i remove for water change maybe in a bucket and take a tooth brush to the rocks perhaps ?

I haven't had corraline since the early days of the tank I realise now because I've had such low KH for so long but before I only had some zoas, mushrooms and ricordeas.

Now I have a blasto head, bubble coral, couple of Acan frags, largish Duncan's, candy cane frag, leather finger, many zoas, mushrooms and ricordeas.

I think what you say about adding 6ml of RF 1 &2 could well be spot on. I have only been using it for a couple of days so was gonna test for alk in a couple more days but I think I will test when I get home from work today just to see if it has gone down again and if so think i will double the dose of both parts from 3ml to 6ml.

I dosed the alk part in the return pump chamber and the calcium part in the over flow chamber where my media rack is which is before my skimmer this is ok yes ?

Here is photo sorry not that great it's off my iPhone..

 

[nervousmonkey]

Cool! Great to hear man! Yeah, if you were dark pink on the salifert test, you were at 100 or so, good that you're dosing to get it down. The acans and other LPS will appreciate it.
As far as figuring out how much alkalinity is being used, just add the normal amount, wait 30 minutes and test, then you'll have a baseline. Wait two days and test again, then you know how much is being used/how much to add every 2 days.
Yep, I clean my rocks the exact same way you described; you'll be surprised how dark the old saltwater from the water change gets once you scrub with a toothbrush. The water stinks like algae too. But it's worth it and you'll be surprised how quickly you'll get coralline algae growing with a good alk and calcium level. Now that we are getting into it a little more, one thing I learned from people here that saved me in dosing calc and alk is that you magnesium level should be about 3 times higher than you calcium level. It can be higher than that with no detrimental effects, but lower and you won't be able to keep you alk or calc stable. If you have a Mg test from salifert, it's worth it to check, and if it's low, you can add mag chloride (preferable) or mag sulfate (epsom salt) to bring it up. Once you get it to 3 times calcium, the reef fusion will keep it there as it adds mg at the proper ratio.

Yeah, that's a great way to dose the 2 part. Some people wait 30 minutes in between doses, but I don't, I just add to different areas of the tank/sump so that by the time the water crosses path with the other water, the alk and calc have been diluted enough not to precipitate. You'll know when you've added them too close to each other, as the alk will turn into white solid chunks like snow... LOL. Happened to me enough.

Sounds like you are good to go man!

Oh yeah, when you clean your rocks, it would be a good time to have some fresh SW on hand for a water change. Might as well get everything as clean as possible; clean your glass, suction the sand and get it clean, clean rocks off, etc. then take out the nasty water and replace it. Your corals will thank you.

 

[Biznizface]

Yeah i do give rocks a blast when i do a water change but not to much as i only change around 12L a week.

I periodically blast them then change out the floss after half hour so most of the stuff that comes off the rock gets caught by the floss.. does that make sense ?

So mate the last time i dosed the reef fusion was two days ago and was just considering what to dose today.

I dosed approx 3.5ml of each part two days ago ?

I have stopped putting the buffer in my ATO water.

I tested for calcium, kh and magnesium and was surprised at the results as since speaking to you have only dosed the RF two part once.

Ca - 460-470
KH - 8-8.5
Mag - 1700 (salifert, syringe ran out of regeant i then added approx another 0.2ml so i make that approx 1700 is that right ?)

So the KH hasn't gone down at all since the last dose ??

My sunset montipora frag is looking the best it's looked for ages the green polyps are starting to extend a bit further now and my bubble coral is looking great also.

These corals are such a good gauge now to my water quality.

If i don't hear back from you in the next 5 hours as i go to work then was thinking of dosing 3ml of each ?

 

[Biznizface]

Bubble coral looking great !

Sunset montipora getting there !

 

[nervousmonkey]

Hey mate! Sorry for the late reply. I like the alk levels you are at, although you can run them much higher. The key here is stability, so basically you want to keep you alk at the same level day to day. Since it didn't change, I wouldn't dose, your corals seem to like the level where you are, but dosing more is fine too, there are people who keep their alk at really high levels, although I don't do that. I keep my alk at 9.6, never varying from that. I test alk every day, that's a key test to make sure you are stable. Changes in alk are what cause the corals to get ticked off. So dosing another 3.5 mL isn't going to hurt, but I would recommend keeping it where you last dosed, so if you did add more alk and and calc, then just test for alk, and keep your alk at the same number. When you do dose alk, make sure that you dose the calcium part of the 2 part or you will start to get out of range for both alk and calc and it will make your life much worse, believe me.
Your calcium numbers look awesome! The magnesium can stay that high; mine was about 1700 for a month or so and it didn't hurt a single thing. In fact, there are some reefers that keep their mag above 1600 to keep certain kinds of algae from growing.

Sounds like you have everything under control mate! Everything looks great to me! If you ever have any questions, you can PM me and I'll get the message more quickly. Either way, keep it up! Everything looks great!

 

[ReefersDelite]

I know this thread is old but does the ca solution need to be stirred? Ive got mine doseing from doseing containers and I see brown stuff on the bottom of the CA container. Yes im using seachem fusion