Should we take things more seriously?

[Oldreefer44]

It's not really an argument. Do you ever wonder why other regions such as Indonesia aren't suffering under this warming phenomenon? It's pretty simple..... They don't S H I T where they eat. I'd blame the cruise ships before climate but then who would pay for the mansion on Martha's Vinyard?

Actually Indonesia is facing climate change issues. Jakarta is in danger of being under water by 2050 at the current rate of flood related sinking and sea level rise. That comes from a recent study by IBP University in Indonesia.

 

[Purpletang92]

The world has many out of budget hobbies for many people. I would love to race cars, but I don't because I can't afford a million dollar car or 100grand everytime I crash it. Should it be brought into my budget or should I make more money to put myself in that position.. it is a capitalist world, what you're saying sounds like commie talk

lol Your a “ I’ll buy another one” type of reefer aren’t you ?

 

[Tamberav]

Just from observation (I am a local vendor), people tend to personally value things that are higher in price. That said, my main goal is to make reefing more affordable, sustainable, and easier. But it’s tough when people don’t bother to properly research the animals because they are so cheap in certain instances. I literally had a person say,” Give me the grass looking one”, when it is a Goniopora. Then I have to quiz them on their tanks to make sure they understand the care requirements. So it does go both ways.

Haha, walk over to the gsp tank and hand them that !

 

[Purpletang92]

Alright fine, worst case scenario all the big aquafarms get hit with a fireball, oh boy now we are only left with the millions of corals already in the US

Have a cold one, relax lol it’s just a thought

 

[BristleWormHater]

lol Your a “ I’ll buy another one” type of reefer aren’t you ?

How did you get that from what he said?

 

[UMALUM]

The world has many out of budget hobbies for many people. I would love to race cars, but I don't because I can't afford a million dollar car or 100grand everytime I crash it. Should it be brought into my budget or should I make more money to put myself in that position.. it is a capitalist world, what you're saying sounds like commie talk

You beat me to it.

 

[UMALUM]

Actually Indonesia is facing climate change issues. Jakarta is in danger of being under water by 2050 at the current rate of flood related sinking and sea level rise. That comes from a recent study by IBP University in Indonesia.

Who funds the IBP?

 

[danreef55]

The unfortunate reality is that most of the people that enter the hobby abandoned their tanks after less than one year. Which is after they have lost livestock repeatedly. It is actually beneficial to have a steep cost of entry.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Who funds the IBP?

The Indonesian government.

 

[TBSB2019]

Does red tide effect fish more than coral?

I believe it does effect fish more. It chokes the oxygen out of the water. I have seen 4 foot grouper laying on the beach dead due to it.

 

[Purpletang92]

The unfortunate reality is that most of the people that enter the hobby abandoned their tanks after less than one year. Which is after they have lost livestock repeatedly. It is actually beneficial to have a steep cost of entry.

Never thought of it from that view point. But that’s true a lot of owners call it quits early.

 

[Purpletang92]

How did you get that from what he said?

You guys related ? Don’t gang up on me because you don’t agree with something lol he didn’t say no

 

[Reefering1]

lol Your a “ I’ll buy another one” type of reefer aren’t you ?

I haven't bought or killed a fish in 3 or 4 years. Haven't bought a coral in about 2. But i will buy another if and when I see fit. My animals don't get sick and you will be hard pressed to figure out what I do or don't have because I don't broadcast it to the world for validation or to show off. Does that answer your question?

 

[Reefering1]

How did you get that from what he said?

You guys related ? Don’t gang up on me because you don’t agree with something lol he didn’t say no

It's a simple question

 

[UMALUM]

The Indonesian government.

No the USAID gives Indonesia 100 million annually.

 

[fish farmer]

Never thought of it from that view point. But that’s true a lot of owners call it quits early.

And you should....those are the "disposable hobbyists" that are seen everyday rushing with too many fish, the wrong fish, "easy" SPS, etc. etc. that crash and burn within a couple of years. Those are the newbies I tell to understock their tank, get clowns and cheap invasive corals. No reason they should be starting with Dr. Seuss fish and wall hammers.

Unless of course they have a great background in biology and other skills relevant to the hobby.

 

[Purpletang92]

And you should....those are the "disposable hobbyists" that are seen everyday rushing with too many fish, the wrong fish, "easy" SPS, etc. etc. that crash and burn within a couple of years. Those are the newbies I tell to understock their tank, get clowns and cheap invasive corals. No reason they should be starting with Dr. Seuss fish and wall hammers.

Unless of course they have a great background in biology and other skills relevant to the hobby.

How experienced would you consider yourself in the hobby ?

 

[PharmrJohn]

The unfortunate reality is that most of the people that enter the hobby abandoned their tanks after less than one year. Which is after they have lost livestock repeatedly. It is actually beneficial to have a steep cost of entry.

Oh man do I agree with this statement. I am without a tank right now for a few reasons. One, I need better flooring. Two, I'm waiting on some cash to come through, but MOST importantly, I do not feel that I know enough to handle most issues on my own, at the drop of a hat, to minimize failure which leads to livestock death. It is one of my pet peeves that people get into this knowing next to nothing. And in this day in age, with so much information out there at our collective fingertips, I see no excuse for it. So to ultimately answer the question set forth, we absolutely do need to take things more seriously.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

The unfortunate reality is that most of the people that enter the hobby abandoned their tanks after less than one year. Which is after they have lost livestock repeatedly. It is actually beneficial to have a steep cost of entry.

A sad amount of truth to this - if prices are too cheap, then people start to view the fish as throwaway animals (as is unfortunately seen with goldfish).

The animals don't have to cost an excessive amount to prevent a lot of that mistreatment, but they do unfortunately have to cost enough to make people stop and think for a moment.


OP, with regards to aquacultured fish prices, I hope and expect that as aquaculture becomes more common/more effortless [Edit: autocorrect got me; this should say efficient], prices for many aquacultured fish will start to drop, but most species will only get so cheap, and there will likely always be some very expensive species out there - the reefers on budgets will likely not be able to get them, but, as mentioned, that financial disparity is a part of life.


On the environmental side, the hobby is a two-edged sword. On the one hand, it does raise a lot of awareness, funds (both directly and indirectly), and enthusiasm for ocean ecosystems and conservation; on the other hand, it takes a number of critters out of the ocean and relies on water, electricity, and technology to run, so it's not exactly the most eco-friendly hobby around. Personally, I hope that aquaculture (particularly of food fish and inverts) will become bigger than wild-caught in the hobby so we can all enjoy the fish without being quite so directly damaging to the ecosystems they're from.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

You ever think why things can’t be affordable? Is there really a supply and demand problem? In most cases I don’t think so and some unfortunately are doing it for profit…..

Well vendors need to survive too. Charging just enough to pay the bills to upkeep the tanks (and all the associated bills) seems a bit presumptuous.

Does this mean I think they don’t over charge? No, many do. And then they name a coral and call it super ultra rare and charge even more. And then what the probability that the super ultra rare coral survives in a reefers tank?

Not all vendors can be coral farmers. They don’t have the space to do grow outs - and think about how long that actually takes for some corals. It’s not really something that can be managed. I read somewhere about them figuring out how to get scolys to “reproduce”.

There are people out there trying to mimic nature to get corals to spawn naturally. BUT this also cost money.

Should aquacultured corals be cheaper - they do tend to be hardier. So yes and no. There is a fair amount of work involved to get to the point that you can call a coral aquacultured.

I love my tank.
I have suffered through a tank crash. So yes I lost plenty of corals.
I've lost fish. Plenty of people lose fish during the QT process. Or during the shipping process.
The cost to breed fish in captivity and then raise the offspring is high. As each species requires specific needs that may or may not be able to be met within a tank.

Should there be regulations on the way we catch fish. 100% yes. But then they need to enforce it- which cost money.

I think money made from collectors of wild caught fish or harvested corals went directly to enforcing and protecting the reefs this would help….but there are black markets for everything…

Prohibition happened….didnt stop moonshine!!!

I do my best to give my tank and its inhabitants the best care…..that’s all I can do. I sell stuff randomly at a lower price than vendors - but I only have to maintain my tank. I don’t have overhead to think about, family to support, or employees to pay.