Starting tank - True Live Rock vs True Live Sand

[Obriy]

From reading reefers' opinions on Live rock vs Dry rock, I see the majority advising to start with live rock. So, for my new tank, I had been leaning towards starting it with KP Aquatics Starter Aquacultured Live Rock. However, yesterday I watched BRSTVs video "Want and Easy, Epic Tank? The 9 Core Reefing Principles I PT 2 Perfect Is the Enemy of Great" from Reefpalooza New York 2024 event where Ryan discusses the advantages of Live Sand Cycling. He states that live sand has much more scavenging organisms and bacteria than live rock without most of photosynthetic "undesirables" that live rock has.
Can someone share their opinion on this matter? Because, after watching this video, it seems optimal to start my tank with live sand (f.e. from Tampa Bay Saltwater). At this point, I'm less interested in all the critters that might come with live rock since many of them can be purchased separately, but am more interested in establishing a balanced eco system with limited chances for pests. Not to mention that this method would give me a chance to do custom aquascaping.
Please, see the link to the abovementioned video:

 

[bobnicaragua]

I watched those videos and don’t doubt their method, but personally I’d get a little live rock to go with the live sand.

 

[KrisReef]

From reading reefers' opinions on Live rock vs Dry rock, I see the majority advising to start with live rock.

Good you have been doing research on the dry v live rock experiences.

. However, yesterday I watched BRSTVs video "Want and Easy, Epic Tank? The 9 Core Reefing Principles I PT 2 Perfect Is the Enemy of Great" from Reefpalooza New York 2024 event where Ryan discusses the advantages of Live Sand Cycling.

I just wanted the video as he described the benefits of real LIVE Sand. In that presentation he also mentioned that the receipt works if you follow it. I noticed he said to add the live sand and then run with ambient light for a month, and to add pods.
Are you willing to wait a month and look at sand and critters a month until you turn the lights on? I think most people can’t wait that long, and I think it’s critical to the method’s success.

He states that live sand has much more scavenging organisms and bacteria than live rock without most of photosynthetic "undesirables" that live rock has.

I don’t think he is saying exactly what you wrote? I think he is saying (thinking) that a pound of sand has many more square units of surface area than a pound of porous rock, and in general I would say that statement regarding surface area is likely true. Surface area is important because that is where much of the microbes are dwelling on, or moving around in for the larger worms and pods and living things that are present in live sand. Also, the sand may have many other creatures living in it than would travel to your tank on it, especially possibly pests? (Edit-pests on rocks)

So perhaps live sand has a larger assortment of goodies, and in larger numbers? Presuming that the rock or sand are collected handled and shipped with similar care the sand is likely to have more microscopic life than the rock, but for many of the goodies that we might want having 1 or two arriving alive is going to be enough. These things multiply very quickly.

At this point, I'm less interested in all the critters that might come with live rock since many of them can be purchased separately,

If you purchase more live rock or sand, then yes, you can purchase more. The mixtures of pods and bottles of bacteria are not a replacement for establishing a biome. This is a very important point that you shouldn’t dismiss or discount.
“
I am more interested in establishing a balanced eco system with limited chances for pests. Not to mention that this method would give me a chance to do custom aquascaping.”

“Pests” are always present. I will point out that KrisReef is posting this pesky reply, hopefully it will not be to irritating to you?

The live sand method in the video is supposed to be simple and successful. Buy the dry rock you want and make the scape you want and then get the live sand( not live mud!) and follow Ryan’s instructions carefully and post all of your stuff in a thread on here so others can see how it works out for you!

I think it’s worth a try, but no(Zero) deviation from the rules. GL

Please, see the link to the abovementioned video:

Thanks for the link. I watched it and it seems like it has some potential.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Its a slightly different route to the same destination. Is it the "optimal" route? I guess that depends on each individual, different strokes for different folks. Some people don't even use sand....

 

[Obriy]

Its a slightly different route to the same destination. Is it the "optimal" route? I guess that depends on each individual, different strokes for different folks. Some people don't even use sand....

I do actually like sand and am planning to use it anyway.

 

[Obriy]

I just wanted the video as he described the benefits of real LIVE Sand. In that presentation he also mentioned that the receipt works if you follow it. I noticed he said to add the live sand and then run with ambient light for a month, and to add pods.
Are you willing to wait a month and look at sand and critters a month until you turn the lights on? I think most people can’t wait that long, and I think it’s critical to the method’s success.

I have no problems with ambient light for a month as I'm not planning to add corals right away.

 

[rtparty]

I actually spoke with Ryan last week about live sand, live rock, dry everything...etc etc

I don't want to put words in his mouth or speak out of turn but he was telling me about the 7 tanks on 52 Weeks SE and how the ugly stage was basically non existent in all 7. Some used live rock and some used dry rock but they all used live sand from TBS. He also mentioned that a lot of big names in the hobby are testing using TBS sand to get rid of dinos and cyano with great success.

I much prefer dry rock that I can create a custom shape out of and take my time to build compared to live rock that needs to be kept in water. So if simply adding 10-20 pounds of TBS live sand "solves" the majority of issues, sign me up. Much cheaper this way as well.

 

[Obriy]

Good you have been doing research on the dry v live rock experiences.

I just wanted the video as he described the benefits of real LIVE Sand. In that presentation he also mentioned that the receipt works if you follow it. I noticed he said to add the live sand and then run with ambient light for a month, and to add pods.
Are you willing to wait a month and look at sand and critters a month until you turn the lights on? I think most people can’t wait that long, and I think it’s critical to the method’s success.

He states that live sand has much more scavenging organisms and bacteria than live rock without most of photosynthetic "undesirables" that live rock has.

I don’t think he is saying exactly what you wrote? I think he is saying (thinking) that a pound of sand has many more square units of surface area than a pound of porous rock, and in general I would say that statement regarding surface area is likely true. Surface area is important because that is where much of the microbes are dwelling on, or moving around in for the larger worms and pods and living things that are present in live sand. Also, the sand may have many other creatures living in it than would travel to your tank on it, especially possibly pests? (Edit-pests on rocks)

So perhaps live sand has a larger assortment of goodies, and in larger numbers? Presuming that the rock or sand are collected handled and shipped with similar care the sand is likely to have more microscopic life than the rock, but for many of the goodies that we might want having 1 or two arriving alive is going to be enough. These things multiply very quickly.

If you purchase more live rock or sand, then yes, you can purchase more. The mixtures of pods and bottles of bacteria are not a replacement for establishing a biome. This is a very important point that you shouldn’t dismiss or discount.
“
I am more interested in establishing a balanced eco system with limited chances for pests. Not to mention that this method would give me a chance to do custom aquascaping.”

“Pests” are always present. I will point out that KrisReef is posting this pesky reply, hopefully it will not be to irritating to you?

The live sand method in the video is supposed to be simple and successful. Buy the dry rock you want and make the scape you want and then get the live sand( not live mud!) and follow Ryan’s instructions carefully and post all of your stuff in a thread on here so others can see how it works out for you!

I think it’s worth a try, but no(Zero) deviation from the rules. GL



Thanks for the link. I watched it and it seems like it has some potential.

Will you follow up with an advice based on your knowledge and experience, or this is just a lesson on how to watch and interpret video presentations?

 

[KrisReef]

Will you follow up with an advice based on your knowledge and experience, or this is just a lesson on how to watch and interpret video presentations?

My advice is to follow the method and see how it works for you.

 

[ScottD]

From reading reefers' opinions on Live rock vs Dry rock, I see the majority advising to start with live rock. So, for my new tank, I had been leaning towards starting it with KP Aquatics Starter Aquacultured Live Rock. However, yesterday I watched BRSTVs video "Want and Easy, Epic Tank? The 9 Core Reefing Principles I PT 2 Perfect Is the Enemy of Great" from Reefpalooza New York 2024 event where Ryan discusses the advantages of Live Sand Cycling. He states that live sand has much more scavenging organisms and bacteria than live rock without most of photosynthetic "undesirables" that live rock has.
Can someone share their opinion on this matter? Because, after watching this video, it seems optimal to start my tank with live sand (f.e. from Tampa Bay Saltwater). At this point, I'm less interested in all the critters that might come with live rock since many of them can be purchased separately, but am more interested in establishing a balanced eco system with limited chances for pests. Not to mention that this method would give me a chance to do custom aquascaping.
Please, see the link to the abovementioned video:

What did you end up deciding to do? I like the idea of this and thinking about doing it myself. I had planned on adding some live rock to my sump but like the idea of this.

 

[Obriy]

What did you end up deciding to do? I like the idea of this and thinking about doing it myself. I had planned on adding some live rock to my sump but like the idea of this.

I decided to try live sand. My dry rock aquascape is almost ready, the tank will be filled with water next week and I will order the sand then.

 

[ScottD]

I decided to try live sand. My dry rock aquascape is almost ready, the tank will be filled with water next week and I will order the sand then.

Nice, good luck with it and hope it works out well for you. I’m hopefully not to far behind you with getting water in the tank.

 

[DrV4n]

I decided to try live sand. My dry rock aquascape is almost ready, the tank will be filled with water next week and I will order the sand then.

Good luck, would love to follow along if you have a build thread. I started 3 weeks ago with dry rock, bagged "live" sand, and added some TBS live sand today.

 

[Duane family]

For many years (going back 10-15) this was exactly my method as I lived right at the beach. We are planning another tank soon as my family has just joined me in a new country and this is exactly what I will be doing again.

We will use sand from an open ocean beach a few hours away from the city and DIY rockscape pieces from a local aquaruim supplier. I have always believed that this is as close to a sterile start with natural filtration as one can get. From there going forward we will QT and dip everything before it goes into the display tank. Yesterday I read the thread on Dosing Ivermectin and my heart blead for the writer of that story.

But there are some things to understand about this practice which I have learned. Which is that not all live beach sand is equal. Obviously color is one thing and you generally want as white as possible but often you might have live beach sand which has lots of small parts of broken up mollusc shells and that can be a problem down the line when these shells break down they offer a great source of calcium but a huge source of phosphates. Then there is plastics and other un-natural compounds which you may end up putting into your reef. So my advice is to look around at various costal areas until you find the place where you feel the quality of live sand will be the most beneficial. This is why I have chosen a spot about 3 and a half hours out of the city in the region I live in. Also a plus is that there are mangroves in this area and even though its a man made feature it is in the open ocean not semi closed. Here were I live the semi closed areas do not have enough flow and as a result have extremely high water temp, high salinity and very high nutrient levels like Palm Jumiera as an example. The place is an eco disaster water wise, to the point where almost nothing can live there (no fish, coral or invertebrates)

 

[Obriy]

Good luck, would love to follow along if you have a build thread. I started 3 weeks ago with dry rock, bagged "live" sand, and added some TBS live sand today.

I've added Build Tread to my profile.

 

[GARRIGA]

Live Rock (if porous) also serves as filtration, having said that, I'll be running biological media to solve that need and will start with live sand in a reactor or canister reducing what rocks needed in display to just that which will provide anchor points for coral and hide for fish and crustaceans.

 

[ygbsmww]

I decided to try live sand. My dry rock aquascape is almost ready, the tank will be filled with water next week and I will order the sand then.

Did you order the sand? Looked today and TBS currently lists their ultra live sand "out of stock".
Any words on when they might have it back?
Any other potential sources?

 

[TBSB2019]

Did you order the sand? Looked today and TBS currently lists their ultra live sand "out of stock".
Any words on when they might have it back?
Any other potential sources?

You can call or email them. They are great people and will answer any questions you have.

 

[bobnicaragua]

Did you order the sand? Looked today and TBS currently lists their ultra live sand "out of stock".
Any words on when they might have it back?
Any other potential sources?

Gulf Live Rock has live sand available. I bought live rock from them earlier this year.

 

[ygbsmww]

Gulf Live Rock has live sand available. I bought live rock from them earlier this year.

Showing out of stock....
Will keep them on my watch list though. THX!