Sudden Percula Clownfish Death - Seemingly "Healthy" Last Night.

[jqmarsh]

I've been frantically going through this forum to try and save my moribund clownfish but had no luck unfortunately. My clownfish has died and I have no clue why after extensive testing.

Tank is about 2 and a half months old or so. I've had my clowns for a little over a month. Currently experiencing a second wave of either diatoms, dino's or possibly a mix of both with clouded water (seems like either dinos or diatoms in the water column is causing the cloudiness as carbon did not help).

Ammonia 0 (kit reads 0.25 but that's the lowest reading)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 8PPM
Temp 78
Salinity 1.25
PH 8.2

Tankmates:
Soft corals (leather, zoa, gsp)
4x Dalmatian Mollies (Saltwater acclimated)
1x Turbo Snail
1x Conch
2x Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
2x Nassarius Snails

Clownfish appeared pale around mouth and front fins - almost translucent like I could see light through the fishes mouth. The clownfish was having issues swimming properly and kept swimming itself down and would occasionally get stuck on live rock before death. Before it died I put it in breeder box to prevent it from getting stuck to a filter or wave maker but that didn't end up mattering.

The breeder box has a few baby mollies in it that I separated to prevent their demise.

I suspect it had some internal parasite or maybe flukes? Toward the very end it would occasionally do a burping esque motion with its mouth. No other fish in the tank show signs of infection.

All of the fish in the tank except the mollies came from a local LFS that seemingly had healthy fish. The mollies came from freshwater in Petco but were acclimated to salt by me with success. This particular petco does not stock saltwater so I don't believe they brought in any diseases.

This tank is fairly new so I didn't quarantine the clowns as I figured if they had something symptoms would show up early enough that I could treat the fish before adding coral, but they didn't have any symptoms so I added my corals in the last week, with the latest being the zoa's a couple days ago. The zoa's are the only coral that came from a different source and I had dipped them before adding them to the tank.

Any ideas what could've happened with this fish? I don't want anything else to die if I can avoid it again in the future - I've never had a clownfish go from seemingly healthy overnight and then die within 12 hours (I've had a few different tanks over my life and successfully was keeping acropora at one point).

Attached is a set of photos after the clownfishes death, as well as a video from when it was moribund.

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've been frantically going through this forum to try and save my moribund clownfish but had no luck unfortunately. My clownfish has died and I have no clue why after extensive testing.

Tank is about 2 and a half months old or so. I've had my clowns for a little over a month. Currently experiencing a second wave of either diatoms, dino's or possibly a mix of both with clouded water (seems like either dinos or diatoms in the water column is causing the cloudiness as carbon did not help).

Ammonia 0 (kit reads 0.25 but that's the lowest reading)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 8PPM
Temp 78
Salinity 1.25
PH 8.2

Tankmates:
Soft corals (leather, zoa, gsp)
4x Dalmatian Mollies (Saltwater acclimated)
1x Turbo Snail
1x Conch
2x Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
2x Nassarius Snails

Clownfish appeared pale around mouth and front fins - almost translucent like I could see light through the fishes mouth. The clownfish was having issues swimming properly and kept swimming itself down and would occasionally get stuck on live rock before death. Before it died I put it in breeder box to prevent it from getting stuck to a filter or wave maker but that didn't end up mattering.

The breeder box has a few baby mollies in it that I separated to prevent their demise.

I suspect it had some internal parasite or maybe flukes? Toward the very end it would occasionally do a burping esque motion with its mouth. No other fish in the tank show signs of infection.

All of the fish in the tank except the mollies came from a local LFS that seemingly had healthy fish. The mollies came from freshwater in Petco but were acclimated to salt by me with success. This particular petco does not stock saltwater so I don't believe they brought in any diseases.

This tank is fairly new so I didn't quarantine the clowns as I figured if they had something symptoms would show up early enough that I could treat the fish before adding coral, but they didn't have any symptoms so I added my corals in the last week, with the latest being the zoa's a couple days ago. The zoa's are the only coral that came from a different source and I had dipped them before adding them to the tank.

Any ideas what could've happened with this fish? I don't want anything else to die if I can avoid it again in the future - I've never had a clownfish go from seemingly healthy overnight and then die within 12 hours (I've had a few different tanks over my life and successfully was keeping acropora at one point).

Attached is a set of photos after the clownfishes death, as well as a video from when it was moribund.

Thank you so much for your help!

Im suspecting immature tank but also water quality as i suspect you are using API test kit. Disregard Nitrite which is freshwater specific. I for starters encourage you to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Dont see signs of aggression on fish. Molly may have brought something in but unconfirmed.
How is tank filtered and you mentioned loss of color which may have been related to brooklynella but cant confirm with fish perished

 

[jqmarsh]

Im suspecting immature tank but also water quality as i suspect you are using API test kit. Disregard Nitrite which is freshwater specific. I for starters encourage you to take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at
Dont see signs of aggression on fish. Molly may have brought something in but unconfirmed.
How is tank filtered and you mentioned loss of color which may have been related to brooklynella but cant confirm with fish perished

Pictures of the fish were taken within 5 minutes of death if that helps - I had observed it in a moribund state for about 4 hours or so before it finally stopped breathing. I had hoped it was just electricity leaking into the water, or maybe elevated levels of ammonia so that I could treat it quick, but tests showed that wasn't the case.

API test for Ammonia - yes. The other test kit I have is the generic Petco brand one that I cross checked the API kit with on nitrite, and nitrate. Nitrite was 0 on both test kits. I was mainly looking at nitrite and nitrate to see if those would maybe show evidence of a previous ammonia spike that got converted quickly. It's been about 3 years since my last tank so I am a little rusty in my knowledge and may be missing something obvious.

Mollies were added about two weeks before the clowns to help build up the bacteria a bit more in prepartion for a larger bioload. Clownfish were added after all ammonia was being converted quickly over a month ago. This clownfish appeared to be healthy until this afternoon. It was very quick. It was eating like a pig prior to this.

Mollies came from freshwater - wouldn't that be an unlikely source for issues(I don't know with any certainty, but I figured most diseases wouldn't cross from freshwater to salt)?

I suspected Brooklynella as well, however I didn't see any mucous slime, or white building up on the fish and the remaining clownfish appears to be fine (male is alive) which is why I thought maybe flukes. I can't say that with certainty tho as I've never had a diseased fish across the few tanks I've had throughout my life.

I also attached a video of the clownfish before death when it was moribund. I assume Brooklynella would show itself a bit more before death occurs?

Tank is a 40g breeder, running a Tidal 55 filter - currently running carbon and purigen as of the last week in an attempt to polish the water (this is when I concluded the water is cloudy due to diatoms or dinos in the water column since the purigen and carbon did not change clarity). Also running carbon to prevent chemical warefare from the leathers.

Thank you greatly for your response, I'm here to answer any questions that may help with diagnosis. I just don't want anything else to get sick if you guys are leaning toward some type of parasitic issue.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Pictures of the fish were taken within 5 minutes of death if that helps - I had observed it in a moribund state for about 4 hours or so before it finally stopped breathing. I had hoped it was just electricity leaking into the water, or maybe elevated levels of ammonia so that I could treat it quick, but tests showed that wasn't the case.

API test for Ammonia - yes. The other test kit I have is the generic Petco brand one that I cross checked the API kit with on nitrite, and nitrate. Nitrite was 0 on both test kits. I was mainly looking at nitrite and nitrate to see if those would maybe show evidence of a previous ammonia spike that got converted quickly. It's been about 3 years since my last tank so I am a little rusty in my knowledge and may be missing something obvious.

Mollies were added about two weeks before the clowns to help build up the bacteria a bit more in prepartion for a larger bioload. Clownfish were added after all ammonia was being converted quickly over a month ago. This clownfish appeared to be healthy until this afternoon. It was very quick. It was eating like a pig prior to this.

Mollies came from freshwater - wouldn't that be an unlikely source for issues(I don't know with any certainty, but I figured most diseases wouldn't cross from freshwater to salt)?

I suspected Brooklynella as well, however I didn't see any mucous slime, or white building up on the fish and the remaining clownfish appears to be fine (male is alive) which is why I thought maybe flukes. I can't say that with certainty tho as I've never had a diseased fish across the few tanks I've had throughout my life.

I also attached a video of the clownfish before death when it was moribund. I assume Brooklynella would show itself a bit more before death occurs?

Tank is a 40g breeder, running a Tidal 55 filter - currently running carbon and purigen as of the last week in an attempt to polish the water (this is when I concluded the water is cloudy due to diatoms or dinos in the water column since the purigen and carbon did not change clarity). Also running carbon to prevent chemical warefare from the leathers.

Thank you greatly for your response, I'm here to answer any questions that may help with diagnosis. I just don't want anything else to get sick if you guys are leaning toward some type of parasitic issue.

You stated to build up bacteria and as mentioned, tank may have been immature subject to spikes in ammonia and nitrate. For test kits, i recommend Salifert or Hanna brand. With brook, before you see mucus, etc, it will generally start at face and gills

 

[jqmarsh]

You stated to build up bacteria and as mentioned, tank may have been immature subject to spikes in ammonia and nitrate. For test kits, i recommend Salifert or Hanna brand. With brook, before you see mucus, etc, it will generally start at face and gills

Yeah, I had a completed cycle before adding the mollies, but I added them before the clowns because they're cheaper and poop a lot so I figured they'd help build up the bacteria further beyond the initial cycle. I cycled for about 3-4 weeks using Fritz twice. Once in the beginning, and again after adding the mollies.

I actually had my LFS test the water since I was also sus of my test kits prior to me taking the clownfish home and they showed me the results. At the time everything checked out and subsequent testing has shown everything to be within range.

How likely is Brook to kill a clownfish before showing visible signs?

I have dosed prime just in case my two kits are showing false results. Tempted to pee in a cup of saltwater and test it to see if I get a higher ammonia reading lol.

 

[jqmarsh]

Paging @Jay Hemdal for a second opinion <3

 

[JayM]

Video often isn’t visible if you use the site tools. It’s better to upload to YouTube and subsequently post the link here.

 

[jqmarsh]

Video often isn’t visible if you use the site tools. It’s better to upload to YouTube and subsequently post the link here.

Thank you for the heads up, heres the link

 

[JayM]

I realize it’s too late now, but using 100% natural or 100% white lighting is best.

That said, I’m not experienced enough to give any advice based on what I can see in the video. Hopefully those in the know will pop in and be able to offer some help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah, I had a completed cycle before adding the mollies, but I added them before the clowns because they're cheaper and poop a lot so I figured they'd help build up the bacteria further beyond the initial cycle. I cycled for about 3-4 weeks using Fritz twice. Once in the beginning, and again after adding the mollies.

I actually had my LFS test the water since I was also sus of my test kits prior to me taking the clownfish home and they showed me the results. At the time everything checked out and subsequent testing has shown everything to be within range.

How likely is Brook to kill a clownfish before showing visible signs?

I have dosed prime just in case my two kits are showing false results. Tempted to pee in a cup of saltwater and test it to see if I get a higher ammonia reading lol.

Prime is more of a water conditioner and not ammonia remover as it implies and can have effects on delicate fish when directly dosed and should be mixed with water first.

 

[jqmarsh]

I realize it’s too late now, but using 100% natural or 100% white lighting is best.

That said, I’m not experienced enough to give any advice based on what I can see in the video. Hopefully those in the know will pop in and be able to offer some help.

Yeah I should've for the video. I naively thought the fish might make it if it's reacting this way due to a simple issue like voltage leak.

 

[jqmarsh]

Prime is more of a water conditioner and not ammonia remover as it implies and can have effects on delicate fish when directly dosed and should be mixed with water first.

Good to know, thank you. Just the mollies and 1 clownfish currently.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've been frantically going through this forum to try and save my moribund clownfish but had no luck unfortunately. My clownfish has died and I have no clue why after extensive testing.

Tank is about 2 and a half months old or so. I've had my clowns for a little over a month. Currently experiencing a second wave of either diatoms, dino's or possibly a mix of both with clouded water (seems like either dinos or diatoms in the water column is causing the cloudiness as carbon did not help).

Ammonia 0 (kit reads 0.25 but that's the lowest reading)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 8PPM
Temp 78
Salinity 1.25
PH 8.2

Tankmates:
Soft corals (leather, zoa, gsp)
4x Dalmatian Mollies (Saltwater acclimated)
1x Turbo Snail
1x Conch
2x Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
2x Nassarius Snails

Clownfish appeared pale around mouth and front fins - almost translucent like I could see light through the fishes mouth. The clownfish was having issues swimming properly and kept swimming itself down and would occasionally get stuck on live rock before death. Before it died I put it in breeder box to prevent it from getting stuck to a filter or wave maker but that didn't end up mattering.

The breeder box has a few baby mollies in it that I separated to prevent their demise.

I suspect it had some internal parasite or maybe flukes? Toward the very end it would occasionally do a burping esque motion with its mouth. No other fish in the tank show signs of infection.

All of the fish in the tank except the mollies came from a local LFS that seemingly had healthy fish. The mollies came from freshwater in Petco but were acclimated to salt by me with success. This particular petco does not stock saltwater so I don't believe they brought in any diseases.

This tank is fairly new so I didn't quarantine the clowns as I figured if they had something symptoms would show up early enough that I could treat the fish before adding coral, but they didn't have any symptoms so I added my corals in the last week, with the latest being the zoa's a couple days ago. The zoa's are the only coral that came from a different source and I had dipped them before adding them to the tank.

Any ideas what could've happened with this fish? I don't want anything else to die if I can avoid it again in the future - I've never had a clownfish go from seemingly healthy overnight and then die within 12 hours (I've had a few different tanks over my life and successfully was keeping acropora at one point).

Attached is a set of photos after the clownfishes death, as well as a video from when it was moribund.

Thank you so much for your help!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I'm focusing on two clues, but they may not be related. The gills of the clown are very pale for how shortly it had been dead. That is a symptom of anemia. Then, the cloudy water isn't normal and may have contributed to this.

Is the GSP extended?
What kind of filtration does the tank have?
Does the tank have aeration (not just circulation)?
Is the other clown eating well and not breathing fast?

 

[jqmarsh]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I'm focusing on two clues, but they may not be related. The gills of the clown are very pale for how shortly it had been dead. That is a symptom of anemia. Then, the cloudy water isn't normal and may have contributed to this.

Is the GSP extended?
What kind of filtration does the tank have?
Does the tank have aeration (not just circulation)?
Is the other clown eating well and not breathing fast?

The GSP is not extending as much as I'd like, it seems to try every day but diatoms or dinos keep getting on it after I wipe the glass so the hermit crabs keep climbing on them - not sure if that'd be the only reason they'd close up tho. It could be closing for other reasons as well. I've been experimenting with my lighting a bit to try and get it dialed in. Currently running a viparspectra. 80% blue light, 1% white light. About 14 inches above the 40g breeder.

The tank is currently being filtered by a Tidal 55 HOB (I heard good things about it, and wanted to try it but might switch to an AIO style sump if it proves to be a bigger headache than its worth). In the tidal 55 I'm running the stock media + carbon & purigen.

The Tidal 55 HOB produces surface agitation, and as of yesterday when I noticed the clownfish moribund I pointed my wavewaker at the surface to create more agitation (I figured at the very least if dino's are present this may help a bit).

The other clown is eating about the same as it always has which was less than the female - it seems disinterested in the Omega One marine mini pellets unless I crush them in my finger before putting them in. The male seems more partial to flake food. Where as the female was eating them no problem (in fact, because of this I anticipated to see a problem show up in the male first if there were to be a problem. So I was a bit shocked to see the female rapidly decline in a matter of 6-8 hours with the male still strong).

The male did have one behavior change through this though - he initially was hosting the side of the breeder box I was keeping the baby mollies in alongside the female. However the male changed to hosting a little cove inside my liverock when the female became moribund. He also has shown more defensive behavior against the mollies in this spot and has been smacking the sand out of the cove and has not left the cove beyond pushing the mollies away. His behavior switch was observed when the female was observed as being moribund. Male was observed defecating this morning. Appears to be swimming slightly faster/frantic in the cove but not necessarily breathing fast, otherwise appears to be swimming normal and without swim bladder issues (unlike the female when became moribund).

 

[jqmarsh]

Here is a fairly poor video of the clowns swimming behavior. I believe the male smacked his tail into the wavemaker a few weeks ago as there is a dark spot near his tail where bruising appears to be present and he was first hosting the wavemaker when I initially got him. This has been observed to be getting better and healing tho.

I put my hand in his little cove to get him to exit, this is a video of him outside of the cove, and then re-entering.



As you can see there are very little diatoms in this cove as the clown has been messing with the sand in there.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Here is a fairly poor video of the clowns swimming behavior. I believe the male smacked his tail into the wavemaker a few weeks ago as there is a dark spot near his tail where bruising appears to be present and he was first hosting the wavemaker when I initially got him. This has been observed to be getting better and healing tho.

I put my hand in his little cove to get him to exit, this is a video of him outside of the cove, and then re-entering.



As you can see there are very little diatoms in this cove as the clown has been messing with the sand in there.

That cloudy water just isn't normal. I'd be suspicious that there is dinoflagellate toxicity going on here, but that doesn't match with one clown being affected and the other one not.

Can you try for a clearer video under white lights?

 

[jqmarsh]

That cloudy water just isn't normal. I'd be suspicious that there is dinoflagellate toxicity going on here, but that doesn't match with one clown being affected and the other one not.

Can you try for a clearer video under white lights?

I also thought this but the mollies constantly pick at the Dino’s/diatoms on the rocks and sand. Wouldn’t they be the first to be affected technically since they’re actually eating it? That’s also been the primary source of food for the babies as it grows in the breeder box and they pick at the walls (I supplement w flakes every few days too).

Yes as soon I’m home I will get that up under the whites

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I also thought this but the mollies constantly pick at the Dino’s/diatoms on the rocks and sand. Wouldn’t they be the first to be affected technically since they’re actually eating it? That’s also been the primary source of food for the babies as it grows in the breeder box and they pick at the walls (I supplement w flakes every few days too).

Yes as soon I’m home I will get that up under the whites

This may not even be dinos, but if it is, the toxins would be in the water. I don’t know if they are orally toxic. These may just be diatoms. The cloudy water may be from bacteria or free floating algae.

 

[jqmarsh]

This may not even be dinos, but if it is, the toxins would be in the water. I don’t know if they are orally toxic. These may just be diatoms. The cloudy water may be from bacteria or free floating algae.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too, otherwise the purigen or carbon should've cleared it in my experience?

Here's a better video of the clownfish. His behavior has reverted back to what it was previously and appears to no longer be aggressive towards the mollies. He is hosting the breeder box with the babies again. He does seem to be even less interested in food than before tho - tried dropping some pellets near him and he didnt have much of a reaction to those. The video gets better focus close up on the clown towards the end - I was having hard time getting a good focus until it was 3x zoom haha

 

[jqmarsh]

Ended up passing overnight, no observable differences in behavior since last video. Very confused what’s going on.