Temperature Control Setup (Profilux 4)

[ingchr1]

Hi,

I have a GHL Profilux 4 and want to confirm that I understand temperature control correctly. I'm using a Colbalt Neo-Therm as the main control, then the P4 to turn off the heater if it gets too hot. I'm not using the P4 as the main control since I do not want the main power constantly cycling the Cobalt on and off. The Cobalt would then be starting up and shutting down each time, and that is probably not the best thing for it's electronics.

Here's my settings in the P4:

Nominal = 78.8F
Cooling Difference = 0.0F
Hysteresis = 0.4F
0-10V Max = 1.6F

The Cobalt is set at 78F.

I programmed an outlet on the Powerbar as a Heater.

Is my understanding of the following correct?

• After entering those values I see slightly different numbers for hysteresis and 0-10V max. This is because the increments in the program are in C, and the conversion to F causes this? For example, hysteresis is 0.396F, not the 0.4F that I entered.
• The heater will turn on at 78.6F and off at 79.0F?
• The cooling fans (PropellerBreeze) will turn on at 79.1F? (T=nom+5/6*hys +cooling diff)
• The fans will reach max speed at 80F? (T=nom+5/6*hys+0-10V max)

I want alarms as 79F high and 77F low. For this I set up a virtual probe with the following settings:

Nominal = 78.08F (entered 78F, it converted to 78.08F)
Cooling Difference = 0.0F
Hysteresis = 0.270F (min setting)
0-10V Max = 3.6F (value does not affect alarms)

Alarm = Active
Deactivate Control = No
Max deviation +/- = 0.9F (min setting)​

• Low Alarm will be 77.05F? (AL = nom-1/2*hys-dev)​
• High Alarm will be 79.21F? (AH = nom+5/6*hys+dev+cooling diff)​

Another question is related to heater and substrate heater. I noticed on my Profilux Touch that the display shows the main heater and substrate heater on. In my sockets I only have a heater programmed. Why is the controller controlling both? Is that just default for temperature probe controls? I did notice at one point the main heater went off and the substrate was shown as on. Reading all the manuals I was unable to get a clear understanding on how this is working. Looking for insight on this.

 

[Ditto]

@ingchr1 - Welcome

Here's my settings in the P4:

Nominal = 78.8F
Cooling Difference = 0.0F
Hysteresis = 0.4F
0-10V Max = 1.6F

The Cobalt is set at 78F.

I believe @Vinny@GHLUSA and @Marco@GHLUSA can confirm

With a Hystersis of .4 the heater would turn on if it falls below 78.6 and turn off at 78.8 if the port was configured for heater.

I want alarms as 79F high and 77F low. For this I set up a virtual probe with the following settings:

Nominal = 78.08F (entered 78F, it converted to 78.08F)
Cooling Difference = 0.0F
Hysteresis = 0.270F (min setting)
0-10V Max = 3.6F (value does not affect alarms)

Alarm = Active
Deactivate Control = No
Max deviation +/- = 0.9F (min setting)

This does look correct.

 

[ingchr1]

@Ditto, thank you for the response.

While most of the info is in the manuals and resource guide, there's not an example on how to setup temperature control with calculations and temperature sensor specifics. The video on it doesn't go into details on what the settings mean or how to derive them. I think it would be real helpful for them to include a complete example in the documentation. Kind of what I posted in the OP.

I'm curios about the substrate and main heater. Having the substrate heater indication on the Touch when I don't have one is a bit bothersome. I'll see what they say, but I want my heater to be on 78.6 and off at 79.0. I wonder if it would do this is I change the assignment from heater to substrate heater?

 

[Ditto]

@ingchr1 - when I did mine I used the programming guide: (https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/downloads/profilux-4-programming-guide-v7-02/)

Example for the calculation of the lower and upper temperature alarm limit

Nominal value 26.0 °C
Nocturnal change by -2 °C active
Overall hysteresis 0.2 °C
Maximum deviation 1.5 °C
Cooling difference 2.0 °C

Thus resulting :

Lower limit = 26.0 °C – 2.0 °C – ½ * 0.2 °C – 1.5 °C = 22.4 °C
Upper limit = 26.0 °C + 5/6 * 0.2 °C + 1.5 °C + 2.0 °C = 27.7 °C (5/6 because of the upper switching point of the cooling, see also Sensor settings ->Hysteresis)

It does provide some detail, but it take me a few tries to dial my breeze in also

Your talking about is the small icon that appears next to the Temperature Port showing it heating of cooling.

We can not select which one to show, so it shows both, to represent it heating the tank.

 

[ingchr1]

Your talking about is the small icon that appears next to the Temperature Port showing it heating of cooling.

We can not select which one to show, so it shows both, to represent it heating the tank.

Correct, but I think they are controlling at different points off of the temperature sensor settings. At one point I noticed the main (tubular) heating icon was off and the substrate heating icon was on. Indicating that the tank was being heated, but there is no substrate heater to do any heating. I'm trying to figure out exactly how that is working, but the manual doesn't explain it well. It states that the substrate heater has priority and that if it cannot heat enough the tubular heater is turned on. At what settings does the substrate heater turn off/on and at what settings does the tubular heater turn off/on? I'm wondering if I should change my socket from Heater to Substrate Heater, that way the icons match what is actually occurring. If there is a heater icon, heating is actually occurring. (In my case it will indicate that the heater has power, as the heaters thermostat is doing the controlling. All though, a substrate only indication in my case would show that the P4 is controlling and the heaters thermostat is failed)

 

[ingchr1]

Wanted to bump this back up to see if anyone can provide any insight into the questions on the temperature sensor settings (heater and substrate heater control points).

 

[Be102]

If I am understanding right I believe I also was confused at first. The picture you posted above shows two little symbols. I think the first tubular symbol is the heater actually on, whilst the other is just the port showing a heater is connected / is displaying a heater in general.

I originally was so confused because I saw the heater symbol and was like why is this showing if the heater is not on and the outlet is off? The reason was because I had them confused.


Maybe this is completely irrelevant but that’s what I noticed and was confused. Maybe it’ll help someone else.

 

[ingchr1]

I think this may be the way it works:

Low Hysteresis - Substrate and Main (Tubular) Heater ON
Setpoint - Main (Tubular) Heater OFF
High Hysteresis - Substrate Heater OFF

Here's from the Touch manual:

This is the info in the programming guide:

 

[Be102]

I think this may be the way it works:

Low Hysteresis - Substrate and Main (Tubular) Heater ON
Setpoint - Main (Tubular) Heater OFF
High Hysteresis - Substrate Heater OFF

Here's from the Touch manual:

This is the info in the programming guide:

Thanks for this. I unfortunately just have one heater and I don’t think I set that as “ground heater” although it’s the only heater I have connected. It’s confusing but I think it all just makes sense and the only thing I am concerned about if the heating tubular icon is on and if it’s on at the right times

 

[ingchr1]

I changed my socket over to substrate heater.

 

[ingchr1]

Looking for some input if I have the PropellerBreeze setup correctly. With my settings I thought the fan would come on at 79.1F, but today I noticed that it's coming on at 78.5F. Below are the screenshots of my settings.

@Vinny@GHLUSA @Marco@GHLUSA @Ditto @Lasse

 

[Ditto]

If you want it to come on at 79.1 set the cooling difference to .30 (78.80 + .30) and it will max out at 10 V at 80.42. (78.80 + 1.62).

See if that works for you

 

[ingchr1]

If you want it to come on at 79.1 set the cooling difference to .30 (78.80 + .30) and it will max out at 10 V at 80.42. (78.80 + 1.62).

See if that works for you

Using the formula in the programming guide would a cooling difference of 0.3 then make the cooling come on at 79.4? I read the guide as the cooling will come on at nominal temperature plus 5/6*hysteresis, when the cooling difference is set at 0.0.

 

[Ditto]

As I stare at my breeze fans, hoping they turn on to see if the settings I been using work they way I thought they were.

 

[Support@GHLUSA]

@ingchr1 Do you use the propbreeze on a power socket, full speed, or have the module to control it based on temps, and subsequently vary the probreeze's intensity?
I always vary intensity with the module, that way it can come on sooner, at lower speed, and maintain, rather than full speed and louder ON/OFF.

 

[ingchr1]

@ingchr1 Do you use the propbreeze on a power socket, full speed, or have the module to control it based on temps, and subsequently vary the probreeze's intensity?
I always vary intensity with the module, that way it can come on sooner, at lower speed, and maintain, rather than full speed and louder ON/OFF.

Marco, I have the module controlling fan speed based on temp. The socket I have it plugged into is programmed as always on. My nominal temp is set at 78.8F, but the fan is coming on at 78.5F. A couple of posts up are screen shots of my settings.

Thank you

 

[ingchr1]

I did some testing to see what was going on. I installed some extra heat and let the tank heat up. On increasing temperature here's what the 0-10V did:

78.0 - 78.4F = 0.0v
78.5F = 0.3V
78.6F = 0.9V
78.7 - 79.1F = 0.0V
79.2F = 1.7V
79.3F = 2.4V
79.4 = 3.0V
79.5F = 3.6V (here is where I stopped the test)

As can be seen, for some reason on increasing temperature at 78.5F and 78.6F the 0-10V channel was putting out voltage when I would think it should be 0V. This is the cause for my fans coming on unexpectedly. As temperature decreased both of these temperature points produced 0.0V. On the way down when temperature was bouncing from 78.4F up to 78.5F the 0-10V was also bounding from 0.0V to 0.3V. Repeating the unexpected operation. It should also be noted that the output signal of the channel is set for 1-10V, the 0.3V and 0.9V are below the minimum setting of 1V.

When temperature got to 79.1 - 79.2F the fans did come on and ramp up as expected. That value coincides with my settings and the formula in the manual.

As a work around for the unexpected operation at the low values, I changed the socket the fan is plugged into from "always on" to "chiller".

Edit Add: When the 0-10V was putting out voltage at 78.5F and 78.6F the heating indicators we displayed on the Touch (no cooling indicator)

For reference here are my settings:

@Marco@GHLUSA @Ditto

 

[ingchr1]

As a reference for others, here's the operation I observed with the settings in my post above:

Increasing Temperature

78.9F - Main (tubular) Heater OFF
79.0F - Substrate Heater OFF
79.2F - Cooling ON

Decreasing Temperature

79.0F - Cooling OFF
78.7F - Substrate Heater ON
78.6F - Main (tubular) Heater ON

I have my heating setup so control is by the heaters thermostat (Cobalt Neo-Therm) and the P4 is the backup to turn power off if it gets too hot. I have my heater socket set as a Substrate Heater.

For alarms I setup a virtual probe. The alarm values are calculated off of the temperature sensor settings and therefore my settings would not allow for the values I wanted (77F and 79F).

With the below settings the high temperature alarm went off at 79.5F. Which is a little higher than what it calculates out to (79.2F). Not quit sure why?

@Be102

 

[Ditto]

I do gree with you that the alarm would be around 79.2041 (Give or take .01 )

78.08 + (5/6 of .270) + .90 = 79.20

I still believe the cooling difference should still be used only because how does the breeze know it heating or cooling since this is set on a switch-port. I agree it should not turn on below the temp, but it almost acting as the heater when it is below the temp setting and sending a voltage. You setting the outlet to chiller stops this, but would not going with always on, and adding the cooling difference fix this also? This is how I set up my breeze using a virtual temp port and have not had any issues. I did confirm
Last night mine does not do what your is doing unless I lift the cooling difference.

 

[ingchr1]

I do gree with you that the alarm would be around 79.2041 (Give or take .01 )

78.08 + (5/6 of .270) + .90 = 79.20

I still believe the cooling difference should still be used only because how does the breeze know it heating or cooling since this is set on a switch-port. I agree it should not turn on below the temp, but it almost acting as the heater when it is below the temp setting and sending a voltage. You setting the outlet to chiller stops this, but would not going with always on, and adding the cooling difference fix this also? This is how I set up my breeze using a virtual temp port and have not had any issues. I did confirm
Last night mine does not do what your is doing unless I lift the cooling difference.

I did add a cooling difference of 0.54F and the 0-10V channel displayed the exact same behavior, 0.3V at 78.5F and 0.9V at 78.6F.

The behavior on the 0-10V is also there with the Powerbar socket set as a chiller. Setting it to chiller just works around the issue of the fans coming on at the low temperature, since the socket is off at those temperatures. The socket turns on/off at the proper cooling setpoint of 79.1F.

I'd have to imagine that the 0-10V when set to a Temperature sensor is always based off of the cooling setpoints and cannot be set for heating.