The Gramma dejongi - A Biota Group masterpiece.

[24gallonstofreedom]

My first ever saltwater fish back in 1998 was a Royal Gramma and ever since I've been a huge fan of the genus. They are bold, curious, cryptic and have a ton of personality all at the same time... Pretty dang hardy too!

Fast forward a few years and after a long hiatus from reefing, I got back into the hobby. So naturally I wanted another Gramma. Late nights in front of the computer sent me down a rabbit hole of research and led me to the story of the Gramma dejongi and the great work by Todd Gardner and Biota. I was hooked and ordered a dejongi almost immediately.

The package arrived while I was out and I instructed my wife to start the acclimation process. While doing so, she saw the receipt (we need to talk Biota!) and wasn't overly impressed with my purchase. I ensured her that this was a one time splurge and our new addition would be the crown jewel of the tank. The latter at least was the truth.

I'm starting this thread because I am so enamored by these fish and want to share the love. If you've got a dejongi (or any other Gramma for that matter) please post some photos and share your experiences.

My next plan is a ~100g Gramma harem (If anyone has housed multiple Grammas or Liopropoma together, please chime in!)

Cheers!

 

[Tuna Melt]

I don't disagree - but at $600 its tough to justify

 

[Tuna Melt]

I don't disagree - but at $600 its tough to justify

And I realized as I wrote this, that I would willingly pay that for a stunning holy-grail or acantho... but for an equally stunning fish, it feels criminal.. cognitive dissonance

 

[Reefing102]

And I realized as I wrote this, that I would willingly pay that for a stunning holy-grail or acantho... but for an equally stunning fish, it feels criminal.. cognitive dissonance

Beautiful fish but same thought process from me. No issue dropping down a chunk of change on a coral but a fish…ehhh really gotta think hard on that one.

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Beautiful fish but same thought process from me. No issue dropping down a chunk of change on a coral but a fish…ehhh really gotta think hard on that one.

If I had the money to spend then maybe. However, with coral, it can grow; you can frag it and make your money back. Fish? You are just stuck with it until it dies. Comes down to a question of "did you get X amount of money of enjoyment out of it"

 

[ajremington68]

I feel with corals I can splurge becuase it will come ack but fish become family and no one can take family! beautiful fish though I had a royal gramma in my first tank a year ago and havent got another since, but they are fun fish with the personality, yet dont pick or bully. Maybe I should get 1 or 2 for my 180 while its not fully stocked and settled yet...

 

[littlefoxx]

My first ever saltwater fish back in 1998 was a Royal Gramma and ever since I've been a huge fan of the genus. They are bold, curious, cryptic and have a ton of personality all at the same time... Pretty dang hardy too!

Fast forward a few years and after a long hiatus from reefing, I got back into the hobby. So naturally I wanted another Gramma. Late nights in front of the computer sent me down a rabbit hole of research and led me to the story of the Gramma dejongi and the great work by Todd Gardner and Biota. I was hooked and ordered a dejongi almost immediately.

The package arrived while I was out and I instructed my wife to start the acclimation process. While doing so, she saw the receipt (we need to talk Biota!) and wasn't overly impressed with my purchase. I ensured her that this was a one time splurge and our new addition would be the crown jewel of the tank. The latter at least was the truth.

I'm starting this thread because I am so enamored by these fish and want to share the love. If you've got a dejongi (or any other Gramma for that matter) please post some photos and share your experiences.

My next plan is a ~100g Gramma harem (If anyone has housed multiple Grammas or Liopropoma together, please chime in!)

Cheers!

How many work in harems??? Ive always wanted a royal gramma harem because they are so colorful!

 

[24gallonstofreedom]

It's funny how the perspective of what we spend our money on changes from person to person. No doubt they are pricey but as you both mentioned, most of us would happily drop hundreds of dollars for corals. There's no right answer, other than do what makes us happy!

I get a lot of enjoyment from watching corals grow, fragging them etc. but maybe even more so from watching these fish swim around and interact with their environment. These fish have a ton of personality!

 

[areefer01]

Beautiful fish but same thought process from me. No issue dropping down a chunk of change on a coral but a fish…ehhh really gotta think hard on that one.

Curious what makes one worth it over the other?

In this particular case the fish in question is captive bred and/or raised. In the US it used to demand a price north of $3,500.00 USD prior to being captive bred, raised due to rarity and import restrictions. The fish will arrive as a small juvenile. Quick search estimates that the fish will live anywhere between 5 and 8 years maybe more in captivity. Hobbyist gets to watch its behavior as it matures while also enjoying it longer since they know it is of a young age compared to something unknown from the wild.

Conversely collector (named corals with rare color morph or social media & instagram likes or novelty) corals can range anywhere from $50 USD to numbers equally or higher than the fish in question of $600.00 USD per 1/4" freshly cut frag or single head LPS. Holy Grail Torch, Walk Disney Tenuis, Home Wrecker, all range from $200 and beyond. This is, of course, which purchased from similar small businesses. Hobbyist side hustle will vary because of the named aspect and, well, hustle.

Both if taken care of can live for a very long time. Both if not taken care of can pass overnight. The coral can be propagated, the fish not as easily. It can spawn but rearing of eggs is left to the small businesses with a rare occasion, hobbyist. There are some hobbyist who can raise marine fish that are not clownfish.

Until we are at the Blade Runner level of rearing marine fish (Rachael: Do you like our owl? Deckard: It's artificial? Rachael: Of course it is) low production captive bred, or raised fish, will demand a premium. Some otherwise unavailable due to restrictions be it collection or importing.

I personally do not own one but can see the value in this particular fish. It is not possible to legally obtain this fish outside of captive breeding resale. Also collectors will collect or setup specific biotypes no differently than coral keepers. We all have our budgets.

Just my take on it. Hope your day is well.

 

[24gallonstofreedom]

How many work in harems??? Ive always wanted a royal gramma harem because they are so colorful!

I think that all depends on the size of the tank, the scape within it, etc.

I haven't found a ton of info online from anyone who's done a Gramma harem successfully (if you find some, please let me know!).

Here's some of my thoughts on how I'd make this a success:

• I plan to buy a big batch of young ones from Biota. Hardy, captive bred and fish that are already in a clutch together seems like a recipe for success.
• Have a big enough tank and provide enough habitat in the tank to thwart aggression (I'll try and model their natural habitat as well as I can. Think overhangs and caves).
• Add them to the new tank all at once so there are no established territories.
• Keeping the solo male fat and healthy will result in a uncontested hierarchy. (When he dies, someone's got to become the male)
• The Royal Gramma is somewhat easy to sex, so maybe it would be possible to add them from separate sources (but into the new tank at the same time). Adding all females and then one male is the only possibility.

These fish are protogynous hermaphrodites so getting them in all together and at a younger age, I assume would produce better results. BUT the hierarchy still needs to be established while they are young and as they are all initially females (or unsexed?), so I could be wrong here and there could actually be aggression as they fight for the alpha role. I'd love to know the answer to this...

Hope that helps, if you find some more information please share!

 

[24gallonstofreedom]

Curious what makes one worth it over the other?

In this particular case the fish in question is captive bred and/or raised. In the US it used to demand a price north of $3,500.00 USD prior to being captive bred, raised due to rarity and import restrictions. The fish will arrive as a small juvenile. Quick search estimates that the fish will live anywhere between 5 and 8 years maybe more in captivity. Hobbyist gets to watch its behavior as it matures while also enjoying it longer since they know it is of a young age compared to something unknown from the wild.

Conversely collector (named corals with rare color morph or social media & instagram likes or novelty) corals can range anywhere from $50 USD to numbers equally or higher than the fish in question of $600.00 USD per 1/4" freshly cut frag or single head LPS. Holy Grail Torch, Walk Disney Tenuis, Home Wrecker, all range from $200 and beyond. This is, of course, which purchased from similar small businesses. Hobbyist side hustle will vary because of the named aspect and, well, hustle.

Both if taken care of can live for a very long time. Both if not taken care of can pass overnight. The coral can be propagated, the fish not as easily. It can spawn but rearing of eggs is left to the small businesses with a rare occasion, hobbyist. There are some hobbyist who can raise marine fish that are not clownfish.

Until we are at the Blade Runner level of rearing marine fish (Rachael: Do you like our owl? Deckard: It's artificial? Rachael: Of course it is) low production captive bred, or raised fish, will demand a premium. Some otherwise unavailable due to restrictions be it collection or importing.

I personally do not own one but can see the value in this particular fish. It is not possible to legally obtain this fish outside of captive breeding resale. Also collectors will collect or setup specific biotypes no differently than coral keepers. We all have our budgets.

Just my take on it. Hope your day is well.

Great observations!

 

[Rollnwthdatide]

And I realized as I wrote this, that I would willingly pay that for a stunning holy-grail or acantho... but for an equally stunning fish, it feels criminal.. cognitive dissonance

It's funny how the perspective of what we spend our money on changes from person to person. No doubt they are pricey but as you both mentioned, most of us would happily drop hundreds of dollars for corals. There's no right answer, other than do what makes us happy!

I get a lot of enjoyment from watching corals grow, fragging them etc. but maybe even more so from watching these fish swim around and interact with their environment. These fish have a ton of personality!

I don't mind spending a little extra to get a captive bred marine fish. I'll be order my CGB soon! I got a Tessellated Blenny from them a month or so ago. Absolutely love him.

 

[littlefoxx]

I think that all depends on the size of the tank, the scape within it, etc.

I haven't found a ton of info online from anyone who's done a Gramma harem successfully (if you find some, please let me know!).

Here's some of my thoughts on how I'd make this a success:

• I plan to buy a big batch of young ones from Biota. Hardy, captive bred and fish that are already in a clutch together seems like a recipe for success.
• Have a big enough tank and provide enough habitat in the tank to thwart aggression (I'll try and model their natural habitat as well as I can. Think overhangs and caves).
• Add them to the new tank all at once so there are no established territories.
• Keeping the solo male fat and healthy will result in a uncontested hierarchy. (When he dies, someone's got to become the male)
• The Royal Gramma is somewhat easy to sex, so maybe it would be possible to add them from separate sources (but into the new tank at the same time). Adding all females and then one male is the only possibility.

These fish are protogynous hermaphrodites so getting them in all together and at a younger age, I assume would produce better results. BUT the hierarchy still needs to be established while they are young and as they are all initially females (or unsexed?), so I could be wrong here and there could actually be aggression as they fight for the alpha role. I'd love to know the answer to this...

Hope that helps, if you find some more information please share!

They are just super cool! I might try this in my 300 gallon. I would like a harem and or schooling fish if possible

 

[Tuna Melt]

This May I was scubba diving in Curacao, Royal Gramma's are native there. They seemed to be solitary, never really saw groups of mature ones. Usually there was one or two hanging out under overhangs or poking out of caves.

 

[skey44]

Hot take… Royal grammas are under appreciated for their beauty because they are common in the US trade. I have one and it’s one of the least expensive, yet most beautiful fish I own.

 

[24gallonstofreedom]

Hot take… Royal grammas are under appreciated for their beauty because they are common in the US trade. I have one and it’s one of the least expensive, yet most beautiful fish I own.

Totally agree!

 

[24gallonstofreedom]

This May I was scubba diving in Curacao, Royal Gramma's are native there. They seemed to be solitary, never really saw groups of mature ones. Usually there was one or two hanging out under overhangs or poking out of caves.

Check this video out, it shows giant groups of G. loreto in Cuba, along with some G. dejongi for good measure.

 

[Mark Goode]

I had a royal gramma in a tank some years ago, and he was an amazing little chap. He had a cave right near the glass, and would spend hours rearranging the sand around his cave entrance. I'd see him every day, as soon as the lights came on, picking copepods off the glass.

So when I set up my current tank two years ago, one of my first fish had to be another gramma. Sadly, I only get the occasional glimpse of this one at feeding time.

 

[Doctorgori]

I have a harem of 4 plus maybe 1 or 2 black caps …cant get a good shot after 5 retakes…
Seems almost any combo settles in eventually…
Also the more the merrier…they simply show themselves more when in a group
Ive never had any aggression issues nor ever bothered with a stocking order…they go in as I get them and usually take a few weeks before you see them interact with the established group …not gospel, just my sample experience

 

[KrisReef]

It's funny how most of us would happily drop hundreds for.... There's no right answer, other than do what makes us happy!

I know what you mean.