Trident NP phosphate problems......

petcellar

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I know there are similar threads floating about, but was just wondering if there have been any new developments.....

I started with a Trident NP and the results were pretty believable for the first batch of reagents. I had trouble with low phosphates, but I have a new build with a lot of Marco rock and that probably soaks up a lot of phosphate. I've been dosing phosphate, and the NP would show an appropriate response each time, so felt reasonable.

Now I've replaced reagents for the first time. I followed the directions, and also calibrated for the first time after 72 hours like recommended.

Now my phosphates read 0

Only 0

Manual test reads 0

Automated test reads 0

Test after phosphate dosing reads zero.

Reading through old threads it looks like some folks have had this trouble after calibrating. Should I just try to factory reset it?

Or just get a phosphate test kit and dump the whole thing..........

Just wondered if anyone has had success recently and figured out any magic way to make this thing work.

#apexusers #Trident
 
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sgrosenb

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@petcellar I too had some very believable readings when I first got the unit. It as spot-on with my Hanna ULR and consistently stayed that way through my first reagent pack. Then once I changed the reagents, mixing and calibrating exactly how they recommend, it has become inconsistent and I have no faith in the accuracy. I'm not getting 0 readings, but I'm getting readings that swing by +/- 0.2 (which I know is not possible, given that I am using no means whatsoever to remove or adjust PO4) and is completely inconsistent with my Hanna ULR tests.

I've been daring myself to call Neptune and see what they say; I think I'll do that this week and see if anything can be fixed. As of right now, my NP is just a really expensive piece of plastic... unfortunate, as I was really hoping it would be great.
 
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petcellar

petcellar

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Well I ordered a Hanna ULR.....
Hard to complain to Neptune that the readings are wrong if I don't have any standard to compare to.....

Sure hope that things get better.... new reagents or new firmware or something.

Should have done a bit more research before I bought this one.

At least my original Trident has been working like a champ.
 

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Patrick and Paul over at Neptune posted a video talking about a few products one of which was the NP. Within the video they mentioned a NP firmware update that will allow the hobbyist to calibrate the NP using tank water and manual test results. This is a option with the original Trident some hobbyist have requested that the NP implement. I provided the link below for reference.

The way it works is that you will collect a larger than average water sample from your tank. When I tested this I used 2 cups. I used Hanna kits for both nitrate and phosphate. I also performed 5 manual tests of each but Neptune requested at least 3. If anything is out of whack in the manual tests remove that outlier - I would test again because you want a good pattern. This is why I personally performed 5 tests. Take the average and that will be the number you use to enter into the manual calibration field. You then move the sample line to the remaining water you collected earlier to do manual tests and that is it. I've run manual calibration using both the average and 95th percentile and the results are fine. This is more or less how it will go but of course Neptune will document it - they are good at that or Paul with a video.

Of course all displays are different but I will say that the process works and will probably make a few hobbyist happy that like to calibrate using manual test kits like is a option today with the Trident.

 
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petcellar

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So tested my phosphate again with Hanna checker, and now it's up to 0.13 ppm - and still testing zero on Trident NP.

Unfortunately, now it's reading zero on nitrates as well. I don't have another test to confirm these findings... but I think it is pretty unlikely. I need to invest in another test kit to compare.

I reached out to Neptune support and they answered pretty quickly and requested some photos. I sent them the information they wanted... but then it has been just crickets the past few days. Hopefully I hear back from them :)

I really think it's going to be something as simple as a reagent batch or something since it happened right at a reagent change.

It's very frustrating that something this expensive is so unreliable... and that something I bought to save time is actually costing me quite a bit of time without any benefit.....

But I haven't given up yet. Hopefully there is still hope for the NP.....

We will see.
 
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jon9508

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This happened to me as well last week. Replaced with a new batch of regents. Like I dummy i calibrated. (Was working ok before)Now my no3 reads 0. I have tried resetting to factory. Recalibration with a diffrent solution. Still reads 0. Been that way for 2 weeks. Neptune has asked for pictures and what not. But they havnt responded in a few days. P04 seems to be pretty good though. makes me wonder if it was a bad batch of regents.
 

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So tested my phosphate again with Hanna checker, and now it's up to 0.13 ppm - and still testing zero on Trident NP.

Unfortunately, now it's reading zero on nitrates as well. I don't have another test to confirm these findings... but I think it is pretty unlikely. I need to invest in another test kit to compare.

I reached out to Neptune support and they answered pretty quickly and requested some photos. I sent them the information they wanted... but then it has been just crickets the past few days. Hopefully I hear back from them :)

I really think it's going to be something as simple as a reagent batch or something since it happened right at a reagent change.

It's very frustrating that something this expensive is so unreliable... and that something I bought to save time is actually costing me quite a bit of time without any benefit.....

But I haven't given up yet. Hopefully there is still hope for the NP.....

We will see.
Did you manage to get to the bottom of your problem? I am having the same issues … Phosphate reading 0 and my Hannah and other kits reading 0.15 … I’m using Rowaphos to bring down but meanwhile the Trident is an expensive ornament
 

sgrosenb

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I spoke with Neptune via email (which has been a slow process - they only respond once per week or so) on this topic. My readings went from swinging around wildly, to now reading way below Hanna checker.

Here's the most recent correspondence they sent on Sunday morning 1/26 (I responded promptly an still haven't heard back 5 business day later...)

Note that when doing the process below, I found that my sample prime did not fill as high as my Reagent A, B and C. I'm waiting to hear whether that's normal or if something is awry there. My sample line is clear of any debris, hasn't been tampered with / shortened at all, and is within the proper height that it should be.

Hi Scott,

Our normal support hours are Monday to Friday, 9:00am to 5:00pm PST. Agents will respond to support tickets off the clock on their own time on the weekends for a short period of time throughout the day to help our customers with steps to try over the weekend.

Here are some preliminary questions and/or steps you can take that will help us expedite a solution for you once we are back in the office.

I apologize for a delayed response! Thank you for sending those files over. We may try doing another calibration, however, before we do, I would like to look at how your Trident NP performs during a prime.

We would like you to remove the cuvette faceplate so that you will be able to view the cuvette. We are going to have you run two primes on all 4 fluids to ensure liquid fills to the same spot for all 4 fluids. Each prime of all four fluids should take about 15 minutes. We only care about what you observe on the second prime. If possible, consider taking a video of the entire second prime and sharing it with us using the provided Dropbox link below.

1. Remove the Trident cuvette faceplate (Video Here) so you can observe the cuvette.

image


2. In Fusion, navigate to the Trident’s configuration page and choose Prime for all options, then hit Update Apex to send the command to the Trident.

3. Watch the cuvette for each reagent and sample water. Each should fill to the same spot on the cuvette and then drain. Please look closely at each fill before draining, as a 1/8" difference can affect the Trident’s operation.

AD_4nXeYvJjBW_a2iuQKAzx2k7pbcuvrj-YzG2aGha16VKiVVrIZLbqDRLnicj6ubHtDo2gB4OFH586umQhCOtMSab2lKgKdTsPe0jSgbrfUYSeaVJpo07511bvabFmT-U5feVrkVa1N0Q-3lzkbLklbmfrYKp9H


4. Repeat steps 1 through 3 immediately after the first prime. If possible, please record a video and ensure the cuvette is well lit so we can see the different colors of the reagents.

5. Here's the Dropbox link you can use to share the video of the second prime you conducted on the Trident NP:
 
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petcellar

petcellar

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This happened to me as well last week. Replaced with a new batch of regents. Like I dummy i calibrated. (Was working ok before)Now my no3 reads 0. I have tried resetting to factory. Recalibration with a diffrent solution. Still reads 0. Been that way for 2 weeks. Neptune has asked for pictures and what not. But they havnt responded in a few days. P04 seems to be pretty good though. makes me wonder if it was a bad batch of regents.
Sounds very similar to my problem! Interesting that it is the Nitrate that is zero and not the phosphate thought.

It really does seem to me that it might be reagents. The problem happened exactly at a reagent replacement. It worked fine before.... seems to make sense.

Even if it is reagents, I'm not sure whether to be glad or not. On one hand, that means the Trident itself works and there is some hope it might be useful in the future. On the other hand... if bad reagents are really this common, then I'm not sure that I'll ever have consistent results that I can depend on.
 
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petcellar

petcellar

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Did you manage to get to the bottom of your problem? I am having the same issues … Phosphate reading 0 and my Hannah and other kits reading 0.15 … I’m using Rowaphos to bring down but meanwhile the Trident is an expensive ornament
Nope! Still no resolution. I've sent them the .biz files and all the pics that they wanted, and haven't heard back from them now for nearly a week.

It is very frustrating. And I'd say it is even worse than an expensive ornament. The NP was expensive enough, and right now is a paperweight.

But it's still testing every day. I don't see why I should turn it off... if the reagents are bad then no use trying to save them some how. But this is expensive too.

Then, I had to buy Hanna Checkers to test N and P. My tank is new and I need to know these numbers to keep them from bottoming out. Then I had to buy reagents for these checkers....

The customer service has been less than impressive.

And this is something that I bought to save time.... :)
 

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This happened to me when I changed reagents as well. I think I just rebooted a few times until I got a reading. I did use calibration at one point when I got frustrated.

Makes you wonder what is up with the reagents. I have the same problem recently with my regular trident when I changed reagents and Alk went out of range during testing. I opened a new alk reagent and went through the workflow to replace it and went back to normal afterwards.
 
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petcellar

petcellar

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I spoke with Neptune via email (which has been a slow process - they only respond once per week or so) on this topic. My readings went from swinging around wildly, to now reading way below Hanna checker.

Here's the most recent correspondence they sent on Sunday morning 1/26 (I responded promptly an still haven't heard back 5 business day later...)

Note that when doing the process below, I found that my sample prime did not fill as high as my Reagent A, B and C. I'm waiting to hear whether that's normal or if something is awry there. My sample line is clear of any debris, hasn't been tampered with / shortened at all, and is within the proper height that it should be.

Hi Scott,

Our normal support hours are Monday to Friday, 9:00am to 5:00pm PST. Agents will respond to support tickets off the clock on their own time on the weekends for a short period of time throughout the day to help our customers with steps to try over the weekend.

Here are some preliminary questions and/or steps you can take that will help us expedite a solution for you once we are back in the office.

I apologize for a delayed response! Thank you for sending those files over. We may try doing another calibration, however, before we do, I would like to look at how your Trident NP performs during a prime.

We would like you to remove the cuvette faceplate so that you will be able to view the cuvette. We are going to have you run two primes on all 4 fluids to ensure liquid fills to the same spot for all 4 fluids. Each prime of all four fluids should take about 15 minutes. We only care about what you observe on the second prime. If possible, consider taking a video of the entire second prime and sharing it with us using the provided Dropbox link below.

1. Remove the Trident cuvette faceplate (Video Here) so you can observe the cuvette.


image


2. In Fusion, navigate to the Trident’s configuration page and choose Prime for all options, then hit Update Apex to send the command to the Trident.

3. Watch the cuvette for each reagent and sample water. Each should fill to the same spot on the cuvette and then drain. Please look closely at each fill before draining, as a 1/8" difference can affect the Trident’s operation.

AD_4nXeYvJjBW_a2iuQKAzx2k7pbcuvrj-YzG2aGha16VKiVVrIZLbqDRLnicj6ubHtDo2gB4OFH586umQhCOtMSab2lKgKdTsPe0jSgbrfUYSeaVJpo07511bvabFmT-U5feVrkVa1N0Q-3lzkbLklbmfrYKp9H


4. Repeat steps 1 through 3 immediately after the first prime. If possible, please record a video and ensure the cuvette is well lit so we can see the different colors of the reagents.

5. Here's the Dropbox link you can use to share the video of the second prime you conducted on the Trident NP:


I guess this is the next thing that they will ask me to do. First they sent me an email asking for pics, which I promptly sent. Then several days later they asked for the .biz file, which again, I promptly sent.

The last time I heard from them was Sunday, same as you.

Hoping for a good resolution......
 

sgrosenb

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Neptune's customer service response time has been extremely disappointing. Waiting a full week+ for a response (each time) to an issue doesn't sit well. Either they are understaffed, or they are purposefully trying to buy time for responses related to the Trident NP since they are aware that the product/reagent is flawed. Either one doesn't bode well for them.

I'm usually pretty forgiving when it comes to companies and like to give them the benefit of the doubt. For some reason I don't feel like this Trident NP has earned that benefit.. It's been an extremely expensive frustration, with little communication from Neptune. Like you said @petcellar it is nothing more than an expensive ornament.

I'll post an update some day when I hear back from Neptune :zany-face:
 

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Good luck mine did the same thing, ended up the reagents ate up corroded the pinch pumps into small pieces. SWA.com didn't even question my return, they know 50% of them fail quickly. Mine went straight back for a full refund.
I'm an Apex Junkie, but this thing is junk.
Waiting for the Maven from CoralVue to release.
I sure wish it would have worked.
 
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petcellar

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Phosphate has read 0 for weeks now.... But now my nitrates are reading in the 90s, which is ridiculous.

Nitrate levels on my newly purchased Hanna checker are 4.6...... Which is much more believable.

1000005694.png
 
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braaap

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Good luck mine did the same thing, ended up the reagents ate up corroded the pinch pumps into small pieces. SWA.com didn't even question my return, they know 50% of them fail quickly. Mine went straight back for a full refund.
I'm an Apex Junkie, but this thing is junk.
Waiting for the Maven from CoralVue to release.
I sure wish it would have worked.

I find that odd because the reagents by themselves aren’t very corrosive according to the data sheets. Wonder if they are when mixed?

I returned mine to BRS no questions asked.
 

14 foot reef

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I find that odd because the reagents by themselves aren’t very corrosive according to the data sheets. Wonder if they are when mixed?

I returned mine to BRS no questions asked.
The reagents have special instructions and a neutralizer to add before discarding, I'd called that very corrosive.
 

braaap

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The reagents have special instructions and a neutralizer to add before discarding, I'd called that very corrosive.
I know they do. But according to the sds they are actually mildly acidic. You have more acidic stuff under your sink. Don’t just blindly believe Neptune. Go look at the data they provide.
 


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