Necrodaemus
Active Member
Any pics of your Oregon tort? Just for personal comparison sake.
Tulip-polyp syndrome and neoplasia
- Thread starter Hugo Tait
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vitaliyphoto
Active Member
Any pics of your Oregon tort? Just for personal comparison sake.
In my case a cali tort, this shot done in daylight before lights were on
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Necrodaemus
Active Member
Oh yea, the lack of distinctive corallites and prominent tulip polyps is definitely noticeable there.
vitaliyphoto
Active Member
Same stuff. Like I said, once this becomes a major issue at coral farms they will jump on this right away and there will be a solution in like a week
anthonymckay
Active Member
From reading every post in this thread and others, the only common thing I'm seeing... is that there is no common thing between all these tanks. It seems if there were some simple common denominator we would have collectively deduced that in the last few years.
What if... there is no single cause. What if this is just a response to a more general state of a coral being non-ideal conditions for prolonged periods of time? When a coral is doing just well enough to not die, but not much more than that? Maybe these structure deformities are just how ultra slow unhealthy growth manifests itself?
Thinking back to when my RedSea 300 had a seam failure, I had to move everything into a big 100gal plastic horse trough temporarily until I was able to get my new aquarium delivered and setup. Due to shipping delays, and other unforeseen problems, this ended up being about 3 months between aquariums that my entire tank had to exist in this setup. It used the same water and equipment, except I ran zero filtration in this setup. Just water changes and a kalk doser.
Over time this temporary setup started to take its toll. One notable colony I had was a strawberry shortcake colony I grew from a small frag. When the tank failed, it went into the trough looking like this:
When it come out of the trough 3 months later, it looked like this:
The main change was just my water quality got really poor, not poor enough to kill anything, but most things stopped growing. My alk uptake of course dropped massively during these 3 months.
Just a theory, as it seems we haven't been able to find any kind of single common denominator.
What if... there is no single cause. What if this is just a response to a more general state of a coral being non-ideal conditions for prolonged periods of time? When a coral is doing just well enough to not die, but not much more than that? Maybe these structure deformities are just how ultra slow unhealthy growth manifests itself?
Thinking back to when my RedSea 300 had a seam failure, I had to move everything into a big 100gal plastic horse trough temporarily until I was able to get my new aquarium delivered and setup. Due to shipping delays, and other unforeseen problems, this ended up being about 3 months between aquariums that my entire tank had to exist in this setup. It used the same water and equipment, except I ran zero filtration in this setup. Just water changes and a kalk doser.
Over time this temporary setup started to take its toll. One notable colony I had was a strawberry shortcake colony I grew from a small frag. When the tank failed, it went into the trough looking like this:
When it come out of the trough 3 months later, it looked like this:
The main change was just my water quality got really poor, not poor enough to kill anything, but most things stopped growing. My alk uptake of course dropped massively during these 3 months.
Just a theory, as it seems we haven't been able to find any kind of single common denominator.
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vitaliyphoto
Active Member
I could roll with this. This is of course some sort of anomaly in form of bacteria/virus/protozoan/parasitic zoox/fungus etc, which is present only in a few systems. The manifestation of this becomes evident with stress factors. The most common are light shock, water parameters sudden change shock, nutrient deficiency/over abundance shock, it’s all a form of shock that weakens the corals.From reading every post in this thread and others, the only common thing I'm seeing... is that there is no common thing between all these tanks. It seems if there were some simple common denominator we would have collectively deduced that in the last few years.
What if... there is no single cause. What if this is just a response to a more general state of a coral being non-ideal conditions for prolonged periods of time? When a coral is doing just well enough to not die, but not much more than that? Maybe these structure deformities are just how ultra slow unhealthy growth manifests itself?
Thinking back to when my RedSea 300 had a seam failure, I had to move everything into a big 100gal plastic horse trough temporarily until I was able to get my new aquarium delivered and setup. Due to shipping delays, and other unforeseen problems, this ended up being about 3 months between aquariums that my entire tank had to exist in this setup. It used the same water and equipment, except I ran zero filtration in this setup. Just water changes and a kalk doser.
Over time this temporary setup started to take its toll. One notable colony I had was a strawberry shortcake colony I grew from a small frag. When the tank failed, it went into the trough looking like this:
When it come out of the trough 3 months later, it looked like this:
The main change was just my water quality got really poor, not poor enough to kill anything, but most things stopped growing. My alk uptake of course dropped massively during these 3 months.
Just a theory, as it seems we haven't been able to find any kind of single common denominator.
My last observation is rapid improvement in torches as I dropped light intensity quite a bit. Red Sea lights have violet light that goes into UV zone. I believe it’s this UV zone that is not allowing my corals to recover, ChatGPT suggested this and said to lower the light intensity to 150-200 par in effort to allow corals to recover from disease. Basically I believe I am frying them in addition to already being sick. We shall see
EDIT: I see you too are supplying the tank with tight cluster focused led light. I think par under this lights MUST be dignificantly lower. I’m starting to see a certain pattern, third tank with either high UV channel component or tight cluster. May be light related afterall
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Necrodaemus
Active Member
Posts dating back to 20 years ago....LEDs weren't a thing then, nor was a lot of the additives, coral foods, etc...
Acropora tissue bubbling. Disease? - Reef Central Online Community
Acropora tissue bubbling. Disease? SPS Keepers
www.reefcentral.com
vitaliyphoto
Active Member
This indicates that many contributing factors exist. However, we may have another one and it’s the light. In addition to this halides pump quite a bit of uv light that escapes the coating shield.
Just read that post and seems like it would fall under All-For-Reef dosing. My calcium was 500 at one point before these huge water changes.
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Necrodaemus
Active Member
That's definitely a valid point and one of the possible causes I've been considering. I have since turned down the intensity of violet, 420nm, and 400nm diodes on my ReeFi Uno 2.0s and tge next step will be swapping out the 90 degree reflectors for 120 degree reflectors to reduce the "laser beam" hot spots going down.
Necrodaemus
Active Member
Adding to that, I don't see this issue with my tenuis or tabling acros (I'm sure some have though) and these are species that are typically growing just under the surface of the water in the sea...some often exposed to air at low tide. They are evolved to handle higher levels of UV exposure, so this very well could be another path to go down.
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
I’m sure they’ve dealt with it.. tossing a colony here or there is part of the game. Or they have separate systems to cure it.
anthonymckay
Active Member
Most reef LED lights regardless of their marketing claims don't actually emit TRUE uv wavelength spectrum.
Specifically with my tank, Kessils do have some sub-400nm UV, but kessils themselves aren't nearly as powerful as people like to think. When I bought my apogee par-meter I was shocked at how low the par is coming from kessils. They have such a wide spread from the lens that it significantly reduces the intensity. This is precisely the reason the had to start selling the reflector add-ons, but I don't use those. I also ran these exact same lights on my RedSea 300XL and my biocube 29 for many years and never experienced this issue in those tanks.
With all that in mind, I'd be surprised if this is related to the lights. Especially considering the prior post I made where things recently started to recover from this issue in my current tank. I've made zero changes to my lighting hardware or programming.
vitaliyphoto
Active Member
In your case the stressor was eliminated and stability was again established. Again, I think the recipe is pathogen+stress=bumps+tulips
I do not believe whatever is causing this exists in every tank (or at least in these quantities). The best way I can understand it is it’s flu, just a bit of symptoms when you are healthy, and death if you’re very vulnerable. Corals fight this off successfully when all conditions are good, but they die slowly when stressor stays. In my case I am starting to think it’s a combination of things including lighting, all-for-reef, carbon dosing, and the big 3 imbalance (1500 magnesium and 500 calcium)…
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