Using esv b- ionic to increase alkalinity

[RockRash]

my tank is coming up on 3 months I have no coral just 2 clownfish and a tomini tang and a bunch of snails. I was only testing nitrate and phosphate up until last week. My alkalinity is low I'm using tropic marin pro salt and it stays 6.7 dkh. Even freshly mixed water is coming out at 6.9dkh. I would like to get to around 8-8.5 can I dose just part one my calcium is currently 450-460.

My next question is my ph is low as well Its sitting around 7.7. I dont have a co2 problem in the house will bringing up the alk also bring up the ph?

My parameters

Temp 77-78 ( hanna / ink bird)
Salinity 1.026 ( hanna / TM hydrometer)
Alkalinity 6.7 dkh ( hanna)
Nitrate 14.7 (hanna)
Phosphate .02 (hanna)
Mg 1500+ ( salifert)
Cal. 450-460 ( salifert)
Ph. 7.7 ( hanna)


The magnesium test could be bad. I tested multiple times and the color doesn't change unless I add a additional .05 ml after I dose the full 1ml syringe. It just seems high.

 

[dakoop]

Have you thought about dosing kalk? Incread all and ph

 

[SomeHappyFish]

Yes Alk will raise pH but maybe not from 7.7 to 8.0.

Is it true that Higher Alk can help raise PH?

I struggle with naturally low PH. I’m talking 7.5-7.6 here. I was watching a BRS Video and may have interpreted it wrong but it sounded like he was saying Higher Alk > Stronger Buffer > Removes for CO2 > Helps boost PH. He says the two relate to each other very closely. I’m currently at 9dkh but...

www.reef2reef.com

Yes you can dose Part One only to raise Alk.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Magnesium test kit are fairly inaccurate. You might be at +1500ppm but I doubt it with the tropic marin pro salt. Try stopping the test once it's a very pale blue and read the results, anyway has long has it's above +1300ppm and under 1500ppm you are fine.

Test Mg once a month.

 

[RockRash]

Have you thought about dosing kalk? Incread all and ph

I have not but I've had 2 bottles of esv 2 part on my shelf for a few months now. Got it in a raffle at a lfs

Yes Alk will raise pH but maybe not from 7.7 to 8.0.

Is it true that Higher Alk can help raise PH?

I struggle with naturally low PH. I’m talking 7.5-7.6 here. I was watching a BRS Video and may have interpreted it wrong but it sounded like he was saying Higher Alk > Stronger Buffer > Removes for CO2 > Helps boost PH. He says the two relate to each other very closely. I’m currently at 9dkh but...

www.reef2reef.com

Yes you can dose Part One only to raise Alk.

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Magnesium test kit are fairly inaccurate. You might be at +1500ppm but I doubt it with the tropic marin pro salt. Try stopping the test once it's a very pale blue and read the results, anyway has long has it's above +1300ppm and under 1500ppm you are fine.

Test Mg once a month.

I'll try that. It starts to change color slightly with around .1 to .05ml still in the syringe.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I'll try that. It starts to change color slightly with around .1 to .05ml still in the syringe.

The Aquaforest Mg test kit is really good Deep Pink -> Purple -> Deep Blue. Can't miss it


0.05 to 0.01 would put you in the 1350 - 1420 range which would work.


Are you doing it the same ?

 

[Pod_01]

Even freshly mixed water is coming out at 6.9dkh. I would like to get to around 8-8.5 can I dose just part one my calcium is currently 450-460.

Yes you can, it will also raise pH but I am not sure if it will get it to pH of 8. Just my opinion but I would not be chasing pH on a new tank.

The magnesium test could be bad. I tested multiple times and the color doesn't change unless I add a additional .05 ml after I dose the full 1ml syringe. It just seems high.

From my experience magnesium tests are notoriously inaccurate and you will be chasing your tail.
The TM Pro Reef is in the 1350 range when mixed to proper salinity. Check freshly mixed salt to check your test kit.
I actually don’t check Mg, only when I do ICP test (once every 6 months) and so far no need for correction. Biggest consumer of Magnesium is coralline algae.
You can find lot more information on Mg here:

Thread 'Just say NO to magnesium testing: RMM is born'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/just-say-no-to-magnesium-testing-rmm-is-born.1017528/

Good luck,

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d use both ESV parts equally. The rise in calcium is quite small for the alk boost you are talking about, and it does other things for ionic balance aside from calcium.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I’d use both ESV parts equally. The rise in calcium is quite small for the alk boost you are talking about, and it does other things for ionic balance aside from calcium.

To raise Alk from 6.7 to 8.5 he should also dose calcium even if he's at 450-460ppm ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To raise Alk from 6.7 to 8.5 he should also dose calcium even if he's at 450-460ppm ?

Exactly. For the reasons I stated. Unless calcium is ALREADY too high (which it is not), I recommend always dosing both parts of a 1:1 two part equally to maintain alk (or some close to 1:1 ratio determined through long iterative adjusting of the dose to maintain both).

The rise in calcium for a 1.3 to 1.8 dKH boost to alk he is suggesting will only boost calcium by about 9-12 ppm calcium. Calcium is fine now and will still be fine after dosing.

The two parts of a two part like B-ionic are intended to be used together to properly maintain ionic balance of many ions, such as sulfate, bromide, potassium, etc.. If you always just use one part, you forfeit that advantage.

Alkalinity testing is also less variable than is calcium testing, and the whole reason two parts like ESV B-ionic were invented was to prevent the roller coaster of the constant measure and dose and remeasure and redose based on calcium. Just measure and dose based on alk and calcium will follow along properly. Occasional testing of the calcium can verify that this is happening.

 

[BasementBox]

Exactly. For the reasons I stated. Unless calcium is ALREADY too high (which it is not), I recommend always dosing both parts of a 1:1 two part equally to maintain alk (or some close to 1:1 ratio determined through long iterative adjusting of the dose to maintain both).

The rise in calcium for a 1.3 to 1.8 dKH boost to alk he is suggesting will only boost calcium by about 9-12 ppm calcium. Calcium is fine now and will still be fine after dosing.

The two parts of a two part like B-ionic are intended to be used together to properly maintain ionic balance of many ions, such as sulfate, bromide, potassium, etc.. If you always just use one part, you forfeit that advantage.

Alkalinity testing is also less variable than is calcium testing, and the whole reason two parts like ESV B-ionic were invented was to prevent the roller coaster of the constant measure and dose and remeasure and redose based on calcium. Just measure and dose based on alk and calcium will follow along properly. Occasional testing of the calcium can verify that this is happening.

What calcium dosing product do you recommend?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What calcium dosing product do you recommend?

There are many good options, including kalkwasser, DIY and commercial two parts such as the ESV B-ionic, and one parts like Tropic Marin AFR.

This has more:

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods How to decide which is best for you and your aquarium. By Randy Holmes-Farley Supplementing calcium and alkalinity is one of the most important chemistry requirements for most reef...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[SomeHappyFish]

Exactly. For the reasons I stated. Unless calcium is ALREADY too high (which it is not), I recommend always dosing both parts of a 1:1 two part equally to maintain alk (or some close to 1:1 ratio determined through long iterative adjusting of the dose to maintain both).

The rise in calcium for a 1.3 to 1.8 dKH boost to alk he is suggesting will only boost calcium by about 9-12 ppm calcium. Calcium is fine now and will still be fine after dosing.

The two parts of a two part like B-ionic are intended to be used together to properly maintain ionic balance of many ions, such as sulfate, bromide, potassium, etc.. If you always just use one part, you forfeit that advantage.

Alkalinity testing is also less variable than is calcium testing, and the whole reason two parts like ESV B-ionic were invented was to prevent the roller coaster of the constant measure and dose and remeasure and redose based on calcium. Just measure and dose based on alk and calcium will follow along properly. Occasional testing of the calcium can verify that this is happening.

Cool thanks !
I will fire up my second dosing pump then for my ESV Cal haha instead of doing it by hand monthly.

 

[BasementBox]

There are many good options, including kalkwasser, DIY and commercial two parts such as the ESV B-ionic, and one parts like Tropic Marin AFR.

This has more:

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods

Pros and Cons of Alkalinity and Calcium Dosing Methods How to decide which is best for you and your aquarium. By Randy Holmes-Farley Supplementing calcium and alkalinity is one of the most important chemistry requirements for most reef...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you for answering. I just did a deeper dive and realized the people that have been helping me dose ‘two part’ using baking soda. Granted not baked soda ash as my tanks requirements are really. Really low. I have connected Red Sea calcium concentrate and running out. I have esv magnesium on hand but was wondering what product, calcium carbonate do you recommend for a two part dosing system. Of course there’s bulk reef supply’s product but looking for economical and efficient.

I ran into your 2015 post about multiple solutions and saw the Dow pellets recommendation or driveway calcium carb but wondered if that still stood.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for answering. I just did a deeper dive and realized the people that have been helping me dose ‘two part’ using baking soda. Granted not baked soda ash as my tanks requirements are really. Really low. I have connected Red Sea calcium concentrate and running out. I have esv magnesium on hand but was wondering what product, calcium carbonate do you recommend for a two part dosing system. Of course there’s bulk reef supply’s product but looking for economical and efficient.

I ran into your 2015 post about multiple solutions and saw the Dow pellets recommendation or driveway calcium carb but wondered if that still stood.

My preferred DIY recipe is detailed here.

DIY Three Part with Balling Part C Recipe

Notice: These DIY supplement recipes are simple and utilize a 1:1:1 dosing ratio to maintain proper alkalinity. For instance, if you need to dose 50 mL of the alkalinity solution daily, you should also dose 50 mL each of Part 2 and Part 3. Alkalinity (Choose One) Option 1: Sodium Carbonate...

www.reef2reef.com

I'd either use baked baking soda, purchased good quality sodium carbonate (say, BRS), or food grade sodium hydroxide.

For my upcoming tank, I'm still undecided which calcium and alk method to use.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

My preferred DIY recipe is detailed here.

DIY Three Part with Balling Part C Recipe

Notice: These DIY supplement recipes are simple and utilize a 1:1:1 dosing ratio to maintain proper alkalinity. For instance, if you need to dose 50 mL of the alkalinity solution daily, you should also dose 50 mL each of Part 2 and Part 3. Alkalinity (Choose One) Option 1: Sodium Carbonate...

www.reef2reef.com

I'd either use baked baking soda, purchased good quality sodium carbonate (say, BRS), or food grade sodium hydroxide.

For my upcoming tank, I'm still undecided which calcium and alk method to use.

New tank thread upcoming ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

New tank thread upcoming ?

That's the plan.

 

[RockRash]

I’d use both ESV parts equally. The rise in calcium is quite small for the alk boost you are talking about, and it does other things for ionic balance aside from calcium.

Got it. My next question is about wate changes. My salt is mixing at 6.9-7.1 dkh. I know stable alkalinity is important so would I pre dose the new water to bring it up before a water change? If so would I dose both parts equally?

 

[Pod_01]

Got it. My next question is about wate changes. My salt is mixing at 6.9-7.1 dkh. I know stable alkalinity is important so would I pre dose the new water to bring it up before a water change? If so would I dose both parts equally?

Just my opinion, I prefer to keep things simple so I would do the water change and make corrections with dosing if required.

As much as alk stability is important on my tank I noticed the consumption can increase and slow down all the time. Because of the alk consumption variability during the day it is impossible to maintain same alk value. The only time that I had stable alk is when I used AFR and I suspect the slow release of Alk (due to Calcium Formate) had something to do with it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Got it. My next question is about wate changes. My salt is mixing at 6.9-7.1 dkh. I know stable alkalinity is important so would I pre dose the new water to bring it up before a water change? If so would I dose both parts equally?

In a salt mix, I’d dose just alk or calcium or anything else if you feel you need them. Baking soda will work for that alk boost, but the alk part of B-ionic is OK.