UV Use: Unless Your Using it for Parasite Control are They More Beneficial or Detrimental?

[iMi]

No, UV doesn't differentiate between bacterial strains...it kills whatever bacterial pass through it. You're correct in saying that most of the nitrifying bacteria live on surfaces but there are many bacteria that live in the water column which UV sterilizers kill. These are the bacterioplankton that corals capture and use for a portion of their nutritional requirements.

Sure, I see your point but it's not a problem, in my opinion. I supplement with food. Even if there is bacteria corals eat, what would they be getting out of them? Some non-organic matter? Iron, carbon, maybe some amino acids? I can easily add those to the water with Energy Plus or similar commercially available food.

I find UV lights (again, properly sized and used) to be a net positive.

 

[Spare time]

This is how I summarized it on another thread

Pros:
-Clears up bacteria/phyto blooms
-can eliminate certain dinos
-water can be unnaturally clear

Cons
-Destroys potential coral food (though not significantly removing bacteria)
-Destroys food for zooplankton (phytoplankton)
-following the above, makes it more difficult to keep NPS organisms and other filter feeders
-does not prevent disease
-removes competition for algae that live on the rocks
-can make algae situations worse


They are very much a tool for the right job. Sorta like antibiotics. They definitely have their uses, but daily consumption can become harmful if done for very long periods of time and can even become counter productive.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

They use the plankton dead or alive so what is the reason to avoid UV? Many of the viruses in sea water actually attack the bacteria causing them to spill their contents into the water column where filter feeders and corals capture the products as food source.

I prefer to run my tank as naturally as possible which means using the bacteria (which must be alive) to perform their part in the various nutrient cycles...the feeding of corals is a bonus. Btw, if you have a very small population of these bacteria then there are very few to spill their contents for the filter feeders.

 

[Spare time]

I personally do not like using them because it just makes my life more difficult if I wish to keep things like my flame scallop that I've had for 1.5 years

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Even if there is bacteria corals eat, what would they be getting out of them? Some non-organic matter? Iron, carbon, maybe some amino acids? I can easily add those to the water with Energy Plus or similar commercially available food.

Not sure what you are asking/saying. Bacteria contain everything needed by filter feeders and to suggest that filter feeders don't benefit from feeding on particulates them seems unsupported by evidence.

In my tank when I starting boosting bacteria levels with vinegar dosing, I got better long term growth of sponges, for example.

 

[Spare time]

I prefer to run my tank as naturally as possible which means using the bacteria (which must be alive) to perform their part in the various nutrient cycles...the feeding of corals is a bonus. Btw, if you have a very small population of these bacteria then there are very few to spill their contents for the filter feeders.

+ the UV makes it less likely the potential coral food can sustain itself in the tank

 

[iMi]

Not sure what you are asking/saying. Bacteria contain everything needed by filter feeders and to suggest that filter feeders don't benefit from feeding on particulates them seems unsupported by evidence.

In my tank when I starting boosting bacteria levels with vinegar dosing, I got better long term growth of sponges, for example.

What I'm saying is that running a UV to control undesirable parasites/bacterial organisms is a net positive since we can feed our corals commercially available supplements. It's my opinion, at least. I have had better results with UV light than I have without.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What I'm saying is that running a UV to control undesirable parasites/bacterial organisms is a net positive since we can feed our corals commercially available supplements. It's my opinion, at least. I have had better results with UV light than I have without.

OK, I understand that opinion. But I'm not sure what supplements are really useful for boosting filter feeders like sponges and that won't break the bank by adding too much N and P. The bacteria are nearly free and do not add any N and P.

In my tank, I don't feel I had problems with parasites so I'm not seeing that aspect being beneficial to me.

 

[Spare time]

Same as ^^^. Also the majority of bacteria are on the surfaces within the tank, ie rock, sand, sump, etc. so I think the UV effect on bacteria is minimal.

That is not true. That only applies to cycling bacteria, which lives on surfaces. The water column is filled with bacteria, unless removed via something such as skimming. While UV has been previously demonstrated not to have a significant effect on on bacteria in the water column, making them questionable at what should be their most basic function.

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

reefs.com

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Sure, I see your point but it's not a problem, in my opinion. I supplement with food. Even if there is bacteria corals eat, what would they be getting out of them? Some non-organic matter? Iron, carbon, maybe some amino acids? I can easily add those to the water with Energy Plus or similar commercially available food.

I find UV lights (again, properly sized and used) to be a net positive.

That is not true. That only applies to cycling bacteria, which lives on surfaces. The water column is filled with bacteria, unless removed via something such as skimming. While UV has been previously demonstrated not to have a significant effect on on bacteria in the water column, making them questionable at what should be their most basic function.

Bacterial Counts in Reef Aquarium Water: Baseline Values and Modulation by Carbon Dosing, Protein Skimming, and Granular Activated Carbon Filtration

What are the bacteria populations in the water column of reef tanks, and how does that value compare with bacterial counts in authentic reef water? Does carbon dosing indeed increase water column bacteria populations (i.e., is growth carbon limited)? Does mechanical filtration (protein skimming...

reefs.com

I actually found an Aquabiomics video that did show a dramatic decrease in pelagibacter population (the most common bacteria in the water column of the ocean). They said that it's such a dramatic difference they can tell if a UV is in use simply by looking at the DNA profile results from the tank...I can link the video but it's long

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

All I can tell you is that I drank the kool-aid after seeing the BRS videos (on uv and other stuff). I did notice a steady increase in ORP, crystal clear water (no different than when I use carbon to be honest), and I went from cleaning my glass every other day to once a week. The first go around I ran the same lamp for two years and didn’t notice anything different until I replaced the lamp. New lamp (the quartz was still spotless) and the ORP started it’s steady increase again (from 290ish to 370ish over a week then stopped) and again I went from cleaning glass every three-four days to once a week. These are just personal observations with no scientific data. I have no clue if there is any actual benefit/detriment to the overall health of the animals and what not in my system. I never noticed any changes in colors, growth, tissue, etc. either way (uv running or not) of any animals. I love BRS and think they have shined a super bright light on topics in our hobby. However, I have learned that not everything they preach needs to be implemented into every system.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Well, I mainly use my UV for possible parasite control but I’ve ran systems with or without a UV and I can’t tell any major differences on coral health one way or another.
However I see a noticeable reduction in how often I have to scrape my glass. The uv most likely kills some of the algae that gets dislodged when scraping the glass.

If you’ve never run a UV on a system and start using one you can expect an initial drop in orp, most likely due to the fact that the UV kills stuff in the water column.

I wouldn’t worry about the UV completely decimating the bacterial population of the tank but when I’m dosing bacteria or phyto I will turn of both the UV and ozone for a bit. It would be fairly stupid to add stuff only to zap it straight away before it can settle/get consumed.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Well, I mainly use my UV for possible parasite control but I’ve ran systems with or without a UV and I can’t tell any major differences on coral health one way or another.
However I see a noticeable reduction in how often I have to scrape my glass. The uv most likely kills some of the algae that gets dislodged when scraping the glass.

If you’ve never run a UV on a system and start using one you can expect an initial drop in orp, most likely due to the fact that the UV kills stuff in the water column.

I wouldn’t worry about the UV completely decimating the bacterial population of the tank but when I’m dosing bacteria or phyto I will turn of both the UV and ozone for a bit. It would be fairly stupid to add stuff only to zap it straight away before it can settle/get consumed.

I think the toll it takes on bacterial populations depends largely on how powerful your UV is...however, with that being said, I hear a lot of people giving advice to install a UV with much more power than is required...another factor would be the size of the tank

 

[Wakenbaker420]

Love the discussion on UV. I had to make this decision as a new reefer...to UV or not UV. I had a upgraded from a 55gal that had UV to a new 130gal waterbox with no UV. I have a heavily stocked mixed reef,Sps dominant. Got so tired dealing with algae and bacteria issues and cleaning the glass everyday. I installed a Pentair UV and solved 90% of my issues. I think that for the people that aren't reefing scientists it is a nice addition. Anything to help simplify problems and make running a reef tank more enjoyable.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

All in all,

Love the discussion on UV. I had to make this decision as a new reefer...to UV or not UV. I had a upgraded from a 55gal that had UV to a new 130gal waterbox with no UV. I have a heavily stocked mixed reef,Sps dominant. Got so tired dealing with algae and bacteria issues and cleaning the glass everyday. I installed a Pentair UV and solved 90% of my issues. I think that for the people that aren't reefing scientists it is a nice addition. Anything to help simplify problems and make running a reef tank more enjoyable.

Yeah, it's a personal decision whether or not to run a UV and I agree that they can help with algae issues and blooms...so many people just hold the belief that the only "good" and therefore bacteria that matter are the nitrifying bacteria which live on surfaces which is simply not true. Bacteria in the water column play many roles ranging from cycling of nutrients to food for corals and zooplankton and even fighting pathogenic bacteria. Obviously our tanks aren't the same as natural reefs but this is one aspect I think is worthwhile to imitate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All I can tell you is that I drank the kool-aid after seeing the BRS videos (on uv and other stuff). I did notice a steady increase in ORP, crystal clear water (no different than when I use carbon to be honest), and I went from cleaning my glass every other day to once a week. The first go around I ran the same lamp for two years and didn’t notice anything different until I replaced the lamp. New lamp (the quartz was still spotless) and the ORP started it’s steady increase again (from 290ish to 370ish over a week then stopped) and again I went from cleaning glass every three-four days to once a week. These are just personal observations with no scientific data. I have no clue if there is any actual benefit/detriment to the overall health of the animals and what not in my system. I never noticed any changes in colors, growth, tissue, etc. either way (uv running or not) of any animals. I love BRS and think they have shined a super bright light on topics in our hobby. However, I have learned that not everything they preach needs to be implemented into every system.

I know you aren't claiming it, and are just making an observation, but I would not equate the ORP rise (or fall) with desirability. ORP changes have pros and cons and the old adage that higher ORP means better water is, IMO, not accurate.

 

[ScubaFish802]

Glad to see this post, I currently run no UV but have wondered off and on if I should be. Sounds like I am safe to continue on without

 

[iMi]

As with everything else, it boils down to what works for you. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. A home reef, as it has been pointed out, is an artificial environment impacted by many individual factors. I can see how a rich beneficial bacteria environment could outcompete undesirable ones and keep them in check. Perhaphs that is one appraoch. UV is another and in my case at least, it works exceedingly well at keeping the tank clean and healthy. It was instrumental in beating back the dino outbrake I had, no doubt. Whatever works for individual reefer to deliver the results they seek is what matters. I think we can all agree on that...

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

As with everything else, it boils down to what works for you. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. A home reef, as it has been pointed out, is an artificial environment impacted by many individual factors. I can see how a rich beneficial bacteria environment could outcompete undesirable ones and keep them in check. Perhaphs that is one appraoch. UV is another and in my case at least, it works exceedingly well at keeping the tank clean and healthy. It was instrumental in beating back the dino outbrake I had, no doubt. Whatever works for individual reefer to deliver the results they seek is what matters. I think we can all agree on that...

I agree with that...UVs have their place in the hobby just like other equipment you can choose to use or not use... I was studying up on marine microbiology in depth along with my ongoing studies of coral reef ecology and was just struck by the fact that I've practically never heard any negative aspects of UV even though they do in fact cause alterations to some degree in the microbiome. You can run a successful tank with a UV or without and there are pros and cons to both. An analysis of the cons of UV use just seemed to be lacking so I decided to try to shed some light upon the subject.

 

[SilvermistInc]

Helps prevent green water