Wet/Dry Sump design?

[Eel Steve]

So I am a newb, and starting an eel tank (with a small tang and wrasse too) in the near future. I recently bought a 72 gallon bowfront, and it came with a 30 gallon tank to convert to a sump.

I think? I have everything I need to make a really effective filtration system, but I don't know *anything* about filtration, so I need a lot of guidance. Here's what I have!

30 gallon tank - tall, accommodates my skimmer
A bunch of 200 micron filter socks
Coralife Super skimmer, I think the 125g version, I'd have to double check
a bunch of Bioballs
some filter...foam thing. It's clearly a filter media, its like blue on one side and white on the other.
A sheet of plexiglass I bought
Some silicone sealant I needed to reattach my overflow box anyways (i got a big caulk gun thing of it, so there's enough)
Light diffuser egg crate stuff.
Return pump.

From the videos I've seen on DIYs that's all I need, but I don't quite understand the whole sump filtration process, so setting it up is conceptually / mechanically out of reach of my cognition FOR NOW until someone shows me / helps me anyways.

Oh also I have a ton of dead-rock that of course I intend to turn Live so I will put a bunch of rock in the sump too.

I also want space in there as a, I guess the technical term is refugium? A little spot for a fishy that's injured or in quarantine or whatever.

So, thoughts? Link to R2R sump guide? Prayers to the great eel gods of filtration? I'm all ears.

 

[saltyphish]

Scrap the using the sump for injured/ QT. In those situations you will need to use medications that would not be good for inverts/corals. Many people design their sumps around the size of the skimmer. There are so many different ways to lay out your sump. I would google different sump designs and see what works best for you.

 

[ebushrow]

well, the list is missing a good heater and or chiller depending on where you are located. As stated by saltyphish, the sump will not be a place to QT as medications will generally be needed and if not, anything the new fish will have will go into the display tank thus making it useless. I am assuming that there will be no coral in the tank outside of possible soft corals, if you are planning more delicate (LPS/SPS) an eel tank is not a great choice as the eels consume alot of food and thus there is alot of waste to try and have removed....very difficult to accomplish especially for SPS. - Also, whatever an eel can get in its mouth it will so tankmates need to be carefully considered.
The eels will crawl out of the tank as well, so be sure the cover (if just egg crate) is weighted down and fits tightly.

For the sump filtration, the water comes down from the display where the filter sock removes big particles, then protein skimmer removes some of the waste, followed by the bacterial that are in the rock breaking down the rest. Bioballs are pretty useless and tend to just be waste traps...this is old technology before we knew about the live rock filtration. The water flows through the next chamber to aerate and the return chamber to get it back into the display.

Remember, Reefing is a game of patience, anything you rush now will cost you big in the future. Let the tank cycle properly and make sure you read all the "new tank" setup stickies on R2R

 

[Eel Steve]

well, the list is missing a good heater and or chiller depending on where you are located. As stated by saltyphish, the sump will not be a place to QT as medications will generally be needed and if not, anything the new fish will have will go into the display tank thus making it useless. I am assuming that there will be no coral in the tank outside of possible soft corals, if you are planning more delicate (LPS/SPS) an eel tank is not a great choice as the eels consume alot of food and thus there is alot of waste to try and have removed....very difficult to accomplish especially for SPS. - Also, whatever an eel can get in its mouth it will so tankmates need to be carefully considered.
The eels will crawl out of the tank as well, so be sure the cover (if just egg crate) is weighted down and fits tightly.

For the sump filtration, the water comes down from the display where the filter sock removes big particles, then protein skimmer removes some of the waste, followed by the bacterial that are in the rock breaking down the rest. Bioballs are pretty useless and tend to just be waste traps...this is old technology before we knew about the live rock filtration. The water flows through the next chamber to aerate and the return chamber to get it back into the display.

Remember, Reefing is a game of patience, anything you rush now will cost you big in the future. Let the tank cycle properly and make sure you read all the "new tank" setup stickies on R2R

You're right, I don't have a heater yet. I'm hoping I don't need a chiller, as I usually keep my apartment between 70-72 degrees, and the tank is going to be away from windows / doorways. I understand for an around 75 gallon tank I need 250 watts - do I buy just one 250 w heater, or two 150s for more even heat distribution? Does it super matter?

I am shooting for FOWLR, no corals, but I do want something semi-Berlin esque in filtration, so I need a good light I think, and I'm going to let it cycle for like 2 weeks with Bio Spira before I even throw a clean up crew in.

Do I throw dead rock in the sump to start, so I can start making it live?

Also in terms of Tank Mates, I have that part all figured out (I've been planning this whole process extensively for at least a month before I even got the tank)

Gonna be a snowflake moray (young/small), a Bristletooth Tomini Tang or other small bristletooth, and a Bluehead Wrasse AND/OR a smaller puffer like a bennets sharpnose or blue spotted. If I could do all 4 (hey guys, can I do all 4?) I would prefer to - if not, I'll skip the puffer from that group.

Should I start throwing some live rock in a container with some salt water and a powerhead and let it just chill there for a few weeks bfore I even start to put it together in an aquascape?

 

[ebushrow]

See my suggestions in Red

You're right, I don't have a heater yet. I'm hoping I don't need a chiller, as I usually keep my apartment between 70-72 degrees, and the tank is going to be away from windows / doorways. I understand for an around 75 gallon tank I need 250 watts - do I buy just one 250 w heater, or two 150s for more even heat distribution? Does it super matter?
Heaters tend to suck no matter what you do....one seems to always malfunction or die....I suggest a good titanium heater with a controller over the glass type. I am not sue if you plan on using a tank controller, but be careful with heaters! As far as how namy....it is up to you, the heater should be in the sump so the water temps should be pretty consistent with either 1 or 2.

I am shooting for FOWLR, no corals, but I do want something semi-Berlin esque in filtration, so I need a good light I think, and I'm going to let it cycle for like 2 weeks with Bio Spira before I even throw a clean up crew in.
This is a good start....since you are starting with dry/dead live rock, it will take longer to cycle (generally), I would wait 4 weeks before the clean up crew IMO

Do I throw dead rock in the sump to start, so I can start making it live?
You can add it right to the display - if you have too much for what you want in the display feel free to add some to the sump too....I would consider doing your aquascape before you add the sand and have the rocks directly on the glass bottom to prevent things from digging under them and crating an avalanche.

Also in terms of Tank Mates, I have that part all figured out (I've been planning this whole process extensively for at least a month before I even got the tank)

Gonna be a snowflake moray (young/small), a Bristletooth Tomini Tang or other small bristletooth, and a Bluehead Wrasse AND/OR a smaller puffer like a bennets sharpnose or blue spotted. If I could do all 4 (hey guys, can I do all 4?) I would prefer to - if not, I'll skip the puffer from that group.
I would suggest a different tang than 2 bristletooths, something with a different body shape is usually best - clown tang or hippo is a good one in a FOWLR - I'm not sure if the wrasse will work or not as I dont have any experience with them in a FOWLR.

Should I start throwing some live rock in a container with some salt water and a powerhead and let it just chill there for a few weeks bfore I even start to put it together in an aquascape?

You can do this, but dont rush....I find it easier to handle dry rock than wet and with all the "out of water" time during aquascaping, you might lose a lot of bacteria - you would need to add a heater to this too.

Remember these are just suggestions from experiences I have had....my way is not the only way to do this

 

[Eel Steve]

I think the hardest part for me at this point is implementing the sump / plumbing and pumps and stuff, cuz I know nothing about what theyre supposed to do yet.

 

[Eel Steve]

eBush in terms of two Bristletooth, I must have typed that wrong, I wouldn't do two tangs, as I understand Tangs are not compatible with other tangs!
It's gonna be:
1) Snowflake Moray
2) Bristletooth
3) Bluehead wrasse
4) Bennets Sharpnose puffer

 

[ebushrow]

The plumbing is pretty straight forward, you have a return or 2 draining into the sump and one to multiple returns going back into the tank. Since you are drilling the tank I would suggest the anti-flow back valves so that if you lose power you don't have a mess in the dark. In a FOWLR, you should(IMO) have about 8-10x tank volume turn around per hour ....flow is not a huge issue since there are no corals involved. If you have 2 drains and 2 returns I would say you were doing well. I would think 1 1/2 inch drains ( I would use the low profile bulkheads with the strainers - keeps fish in the tank and not in the sump ) and 3/4" to 1" returns (you can use lock-line tubing to direct the water to where you want it) this would give you adequate water exchange. I would thing a return pump with a GPH rating of 700-800 gal/hr would be sufficient as well (depending on head height). I am not sure if this helps but here it is.

I forgot to mention that you will also need a refractometer and calibration fluid to be sure your salinity is correct - take care of them and they last forever.

 

[ebushrow]

eBush in terms of two Bristletooth, I must have typed that wrong, I wouldn't do two tangs, as I understand Tangs are not compatible with other tangs!
It's gonna be:
1) Snowflake Moray
2) Bristletooth
3) Bluehead wrasse
4) Bennets Sharpnose puffer

I just read the "or" as an "and"...sorry about that

 

[Eel Steve]

The plumbing is pretty straight forward, you have a return or 2 draining into the sump and one to multiple returns going back into the tank. Since you are drilling the tank I would suggest the anti-flow back valves so that if you lose power you don't have a mess in the dark. In a FOWLR, you should(IMO) have about 8-10x tank volume turn around per hour ....flow is not a huge issue since there are no corals involved. If you have 2 drains and 2 returns I would say you were doing well. I would think 1 1/2 inch drains ( I would use the low profile bulkheads with the strainers - keeps fish in the tank and not in the sump ) and 3/4" to 1" returns (you can use lock-line tubing to direct the water to where you want it) this would give you adequate water exchange. I would thing a return pump with a GPH rating of 700-800 gal/hr would be sufficient as well (depending on head height). I am not sure if this helps but here it is.

I forgot to mention that you will also need a refractometer and calibration fluid to be sure your salinity is correct - take care of them and they last forever.

So, the tank came pre-drilled as it was used for a saltwater tank before, and already has some tubey-pipe things coming out of it - only one tube on either side though, I'm not sure on diameter. I guess I need to measure that because I literally have no clue how to...attach pipes to whats there and make that go to my Sump.

I also understand I *really* need a lid for my sump? Glass sounds like a pain in the butt b/c then I have to drill it all carefully to get accessories through it, blahblah....

Also, I don't plan to start making my own saltwater for a *few* cycles, but the guy did include a refractometer. In the meantime I have a buttload of 5 gallon bucks from Home Depot lol.

Here's a pic of the tank with the tubing on the back (theres an overflow not pictured, you can see where it's supposed to be, I just have to reattach it)

 

[Eel Steve]

Update - I accidentally broke off the pipe on the right side, so I guess I'm real open as to what I can do on that end now? LOL

 

[ebushrow]

The pipe breaking is not a big deal as long as it didn't break the bulkhead it goes into. It looks to me like the tank had an overflow that was separate and the 2 lines running into the left and right were return lines from the sump. The bulk heads are probably 1", but they should unscrew from the tank (usually a nut on one side and the open end goes through the glass ). I would just take one to Home Depot and use the plumbing isle to figure out the size . People generally use 90degree angle pipe fittings ( threaded on one side) and glue the rest of the system in place.

A glass top is a pain, it also limits oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange so they are not ideal...as well as give a surface for algae to grow.....I would suggest looking at the bulk reef supply clear net kits and they will be really transparent looking at and through the top, however, I am not sure about the bow front issue...if you are handy you might just cut a piece of plexiglass to make the top a rectangle and then use the kit I suggest....but silicone the plexi in place.

Is there a local reef club near where you live? If there is it might be easier for you to have someone from there show you a good way to do the plumbing...sometimes when I type it doesn't come out as clearly as I think it is. But we are still here to help

When I get a second I will sketch out a diagram with what I think might work well, but you will def. need an overflow ( check out the rlss-ov50 I have a couple and like them- I might even have an extra new one if it will help get you going- I know they were back ordered at one point) to get the water to the sump as the drilled lines will not be sufficient. But you could always drill additional holes and put a nicer overflow through the glass ( see glassholes.com) as it is not as hard as people think.

 

[Eel Steve]

There aren't any reef clubs for me I saw on HERE - I'm in Baltimore, MD.

I am in a Facebook group of pretty helpful people (that my LFS also hangs out in) called the Mid Atlantic Reefkeeper association.

I may have broke the bulkhead? I know it definitely came off. I'll send a pic of it in a few hours, This plumbing stuff is so scary when you have zero experience.

The pipe breaking is not a big deal as long as it didn't break the bulkhead it goes into. It looks to me like the tank had an overflow that was separate and the 2 lines running into the left and right were return lines from the sump. The bulk heads are probably 1", but they should unscrew from the tank (usually a nut on one side and the open end goes through the glass ). I would just take one to Home Depot and use the plumbing isle to figure out the size . People generally use 90degree angle pipe fittings ( threaded on one side) and glue the rest of the system in place.

A glass top is a pain, it also limits oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange so they are not ideal...as well as give a surface for algae to grow.....I would suggest looking at the bulk reef supply clear net kits and they will be really transparent looking at and through the top, however, I am not sure about the bow front issue...if you are handy you might just cut a piece of plexiglass to make the top a rectangle and then use the kit I suggest....but silicone the plexi in place.

Is there a local reef club near where you live? If there is it might be easier for you to have someone from there show you a good way to do the plumbing...sometimes when I type it doesn't come out as clearly as I think it is. But we are still here to help

When I get a second I will sketch out a diagram with what I think might work well, but you will def. need an overflow ( check out the rlss-ov50 I have a couple and like them- I might even have an extra new one if it will help get you going- I know they were back ordered at one point) to get the water to the sump as the drilled lines will not be sufficient. But you could always drill additional holes and put a nicer overflow through the glass ( see glassholes.com) as it is not as hard as people think.

 

[Eel Steve]

The pipe breaking is not a big deal as long as it didn't break the bulkhead it goes into.

Crud. Bad news, Im pretty sure that's a broken bulkhead.

Why is that bad? Can I not replace that?

Can I just glue this back together? Is that an option? Use PVC glue or Loctite superglue gel?

 

[ebushrow]

No, it is not an issue finding a replacement....looks like it was glued in anyways, so I would take it to a good local fish store and match up the size to get the replacement. I would not try gluing it back together as it is not worth the risk of a flood (IMO) if the fix doesnt last....a New bulkhead should run between 10-15.00 or less online. Below is a quick (crappy) diagram I put together to hopefully help with the plumbing....sorry it took so long to do...I lost track of time this weekend. For some reason I cannot get it to be turned the correct way....not sure why

 

[Eel Steve]

Does the check valve work as a fail-safe if the power goes out or something?

 

[ebushrow]

Does the check valve work as a fail-safe if the power goes out or something?

Exactly....that way your tank doesn't drain into your sump and over flow onto the floor.