What is causing my corals to close?

[morrisDR]

My corals seem to close up in the evening, morning and at night.

They don't just close up normally but completely. A torch will show skeleton when closed. The corals seem to close for about one minute and then try to open again. Same goes for at night because corals don't close completely at night. This happens everyday

The corals affected by it:
Torch
Hammer
Zoas

The torches in particular sometimes release some brown stuff out of their mouth. I'm familiar with this because it's poop . I've heard they do this when a change happens in the water. Sadly they release this almost everyday so it's definitely not normal.


Things that help is activated carbon but it only works for one day

And water changes work a little. If I don't do water changes it only gets worse and more corals get affected by it. (Even SPS and some soft corals.)


My parameters are very stable with a kh keeper and salifert tests:

Kh: 9
Calcium: 450
Magnesium: 1350
Nitrate: 10-15
Phosphate: 0,1-0,15

Because my water is a little bit on the yellow side I suspect the reason the corals close is because of toxins released.

I myself have 4 ideas of what's happening

1. Bacteria that release toxins
2. Corals ( I have two leather corals and some zoas who could please toxins but nothing to special)
3. A big black sponge growing under a rock
4 Low iodine. My iodine seems to be low it was undetectable so I increased dosage by double the amount but seems to do nothing to the corals...

I highly suspect the black sponge because I've seen other reef 2 reef posts about sponges and toxins and how a sponge releases toxins to kill a coral and in response the corals releases toxins to kill the sponge and a chemical warfare starts.

This problem has been going around for 2 years now in my 3 year old tank.

It doesn't kill the coral but there just not happy either

My corals are still growing but I think growth is decreased by half because of this.

My pH is 8.5-8.6 so that's luckily helps some corals grow faster.

 

[Outlaw Corals]

Are you running carbon ?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Although you provide a lot of info and good description, pictures will really help to understand the problem. Thanks.

 

[morrisDR]

No problem I live in the Netherlands so it's evening now.
today I put carbon in there but doesn't seem to work today
Here are some pictures.

The two torches on the picture are affected most by it and are the only two closing today (probably because of the carbon)

They are now at the stage that they are starting to close or open because they close even more than this.

I myself am 15 years old with alot of research. Me and my 22 year old brother have this reef tank.


I would also like to add that raising temperature seems to work. Previous I've had problems with dinoflagellates toxic variant and raising temperature seemed to work.

so I tried it with this issue and it also seemed to work but when the temperature is down to normal it will slowly start to increase again. Someone said to me that increased temperature of reef tank increases gas exchange? I sadly don't know what it really means because I can't translate it well enough to understand.

 

[morrisDR]

If anyone knows any expert on this forum about toxins, bacteria, sponges, etc. please tag them in this post

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m probably not of much help but IME when I see torches, hammers, elegans and the like show their skeletal mouths in the pattern you describe:, something is amiss…

maybe not panic time but again IMO this is a sign of general decline..almost every time I see this pattern I loose the head..

I’ve recently been loosing euphillia heads about 1 per week…I’m dosing with an antibiotic every other day … I “think” it has slowed down…

search the “show off you torch/hammer” threads…. pm the winners

we got a few resident torch and hammer experts here….Ive found it useful to troll the TOTM threads and some build threads for euphillia gardens…see what those folks say …

 

[morrisDR]

I’m probably not of much help but IME when I see torches, hammers, elegans and the like show their skeletal mouths in the pattern you describe:, something is amiss…

maybe not panic time but again IMO this is a sign of general decline..almost every time I see this pattern I loose the head..

I’ve recently been loosing euphillia heads about 1 per week…I’m dosing with an antibiotic every other day … I “think” it has slowed down…

we got a few resident torch and hammer experts here….Ive found it useful to troll the TOTM threads and some build threads for euphillia gardens…see what those folks say …

Oh no worries the corals still grow very very very little. But this has been going on for around 2 years now. I think they will die if I don't do water changes but I've had them for 1-2 years. The torch on the second picture is a new one. About 3 weeks old I would say now.

On the first day it showed no signs of closing. The second day it already showed signs like the rest of em. Completely open mid day but closing in the evening and morning.

 

[Goaway]

I have attempted to keep torches close to eat other and found they did not like that at all. One was retracted, another bloated. Moved them to their own turfs

I also had a few leather trees I had to remove. The torches are now in much better shape and fleshbands returning.

 

[Uncle99]

Mine close like that when lights go out.
They return big and bold when lights come on.

 

[Doctorgori]

Mine close like that when lights go out.
They return big and bold when lights come on.

yeah mine close at night also but I think the OP is describing when the fleshy part is retracted all the way in and you can see the “blades” of the mouth (there is a actual proper term for those sharp ridges around the mouth but I forget…coralmorph…erh sumthin…maybe…?)

 

[morrisDR]

I have attempted to keep torches close to eat other and found they did not like that at all. One was retracted, another bloated. Moved them to their own turfs

I also had a few leather trees I had to remove. The torches are now in much better shape and fleshbands returning.

Mine do not show any recession in flesh etc they look healthy but they also do close etc randomly and sometimes they are not even fully open throughout the day

 

[morrisDR]

yeah mine close at night also but I think the OP is describing when the fleshy part is retracted all the way in and you can see the “blades” of the mouth (there is a actual proper term for those sharp ridges around the mouth but I forget…coralmorph…erh sumthin…maybe…?)

Exactly

 

[morrisDR]

@Jay Hemdal

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal

Sorry - I’m more of a systems/fish disease person, I defer to others when it comes to coral issues (grin).

 

[morrisDR]

Sorry - I’m more of a systems/fish disease person, I defer to others when it comes to coral issues (grin).

Alright if you know anyone pls tag them below

 

[Uncle99]

Exactly

All I see is a beautiful tank with diverse corals and from the picture look quite happy.

I have 3 year old torches which sometimes, not always, pull back to the bone.

They will retract more when flow to much.

 

[morrisDR]

All I see is a beautiful tank with diverse corals and from the picture look quite happy.

I have 3 year old torches which sometimes, not always, pull back to the bone.

I know people always say it looks stunning when buying some frags from me etc. but I definitely know something is off. I know I'm not just making things up because the less water changes the more corals seem to close at the exact same times. To me it feels like something is releasing toxins where corals react to and close. In the sump I'm seeing less of this reaction (I have corals in my sump) so that's why don't assume bacteria to be the problem but something that's not super toxic but just a little that the corals absorb

 

[Uncle99]

I know people always say it looks stunning when buying some frags from me etc. but I definitely know something is off. I know I'm not just making things up because the less water changes the more corals seem to close at the exact same times. To me it feels like something is releasing toxins where corals react to and close. In the sump I'm seeing less of this reaction (I have corals in my sump) so that's why don't assume bacteria to be the problem but something that's not super toxic but just a little that the corals absorb

I don’t doubt you at all.
Exact same time? Always?
Does PAR change around the same?
Is it a reaction to light?
Any flow change at those times?

 

[Doctorgori]

I know people always say it looks stunning when buying some frags from me etc. but I definitely know something is off. I know I'm not just making things up because the less water changes the more corals seem to close at the exact same times. To me it feels like something is releasing toxins where corals react to and close. In the sump I'm seeing less of this reaction (I have corals in my sump) so that's why don't assume bacteria to be the problem but something that's not super toxic but just a little that the corals absorb

I got no answers really. FWIW I got my first frogspawn in 96 and there are folks that run circles around me with thier “euphillia gardens” ….some look amazing…
I can keep them but I’ve had instances of head popping, Brown jelly disease and my current issue is VERY similar to what you describe @vetteguy53081 has helped me, at least he has more gray matter connections than Kevin Bacon …

there is a “ABc” dip …erh sumthin …might have butchered that ….
Anyway, my current protocol is with antibiotics… but could be a misdiagnosis/waste of time

 

[morrisDR]

I don’t doubt you at all.
Exact same time? Always?
Does PAR change around the same?
Is it a reaction to light?
Any flow change at those times?

I used to think this was the problem but I've moved torches hammers etc there all in different spots. If I put a torch in high light, in de Shadow don't matter it will still close on the exact same times same goes for flow.