Why are reef tank rocks devoid of life?

[kenchilada]

We have hydrangeas planted along the north side of my house. But we cannot keep them alive on the east corner because they get 2 hours more sunlight than the rest of the plants and the leaves burn. Move the same plant 3 feet to the west and they do fine.

Move a healthy organism into unfavorable conditions and it will suffer.

 

[BryanM]

I think having rocks like this is cool. I bought some KP rocks, and most of the life is gone after 2 years. Do you have rocks that kept their life? If so, please share your secrets! lol

I'm only 8 months in, but my live rock looks pretty much the same as when I got it (rock is from Gulf Live Rock).

 

[Dragen Fiend]

I personally do not think it is related to dissolved chemicals much at all. Lack of particulate foods, different herbivores, lighting, flow amount and direction, , temps, etc.

Tangs will strip off the macroalgae in Miami’s photo. The sponges probably aren’t getting the right foods and flow, etc.

Yup. When I got my liverock for my 5G, I had one more piece that wouldn't fit so I put it in my 20G.

The life between the two is vastly different. The 5G is growing and showing more life.
The 20G rock has slowly receded, very few sponges left and most are in shade.

Really gives a perspective on what different conditions will provide.

 

[GARRIGA]

Perhaps place some fresh rocks in a refugium to protect that lost from predation and dose more phyto vs hell bent on having crystal clear water constantly. Goal being to seed the main from the refugium. Sponge spores and other life might survive where PAR better suited such as blanketed by macroalgae and away from hungry mouths.

 

[Dan_P]

I think having rocks like this is cool. I bought some KP rocks, and most of the life is gone after 2 years. Do you have rocks that kept their life? If so, please share your secrets! lol

Proof that your aquarium is not reproducing the ocean environment and ecology that’s all. I’ve always contended that our aquaria are closer to a waste water treatment plant than the ocean

 

[Miami Reef]

The main reason I dosed silicate was because of my starfish. If it wasn’t for him, I probably never would have started. I really like my linckia. I’m not ready to lose it. I assumed vinegar would increase different types of bacteria. Maybe it is working a little.

My starfish isn’t dying yet. It’s still looks good, but I want it to be fatter.


I think the dilemma with my tank is that there is a pull between 2 different goals.

I add carbon and silicate, but I also skim heavy and don’t feed enough particulate foods.

I want filter feeders, but I don’t want to raise my nutrients, so I am careful with feedings.

Now I understand my problem.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The main reason I dosed silicate was because of my starfish. If it wasn’t for him, I probably never would have started. I really like my linckia. I’m not ready to lose it. I assumed vinegar would increase different types of bacteria. Maybe it is working a little.

My starfish isn’t dying yet. It’s still looks good, but I want it to be fatter.

@livinlifeinBKK was on to some starfish food a few years ago.

 

[Miami Reef]

@livinlifeinBKK was on to some starfish food a few years ago.

You know what would be super cool?

Picture this:

No skimmer or filtration. Maybe just occasionally water changes.

Feed different foods like vinegar (bacteria and sponge growth), phytoplankton, and messy frozen foods like Rods.

Dose at least 2ppm silicate and maintain that at all times.

Add a bunch of KP rocks.

Add a bunch of Asterina starfish (I’ve seen linckias eat them online).

Then observe what my linckia starfish does. Observe if he gains weight. Observe which area he likes.

Oh, and no herbivores or any other invert besides for what hitchhikes on the rock.


I think that type of tank would be fun to maintain. And then I can keep my display pristine the way I prefer it.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll follow through. While I like my starfish, I don’t think the work involved would be worth it.

 

[skey44]

Are we setting our tanks up for liverock, or fish and corals? It seems to me few if any focus on keeping live rock alive until after the fact they miss the life that came in their rock. Our systems and goals are not optimized to keep live rock. There’s also inevitable shipping and handling degradation.
I agree with the other sentiments here, but haven’t heard anyone point out that most hobbyists goals are not to keep live rock. The live rock is there to filter water and support the other life forms which are the end goal. I think there is more potential to keep live rock looking like this if we were to focus our efforts on it. I for one want my live rock covered in corals, so I’m glad there’s less competition from all the other life forms. I have added many herbivores and cleaners to my tank to optimize my rock for a coral takeover.
On another note, in college back in the early 2000’s I had a 30 gallon tank that the rock was very alive for a long time. I didn’t have a cleanup crew. Then I upgraded tanks adding more filtration, and more life forms. After this the ugly stages progressed until I ended up with visibly barren live rock. Whatever it was about that 30gallon was keeping the rock more like the picture you displayed.

My suggestion is this more of a bio engineering/design question more than a strictly chemistry or biology related one.
I enjoyed this rabbit hole

 

[sixty_reefer]

You know what would be super cool?

Picture this:

No skimmer or filtration. Maybe just occasionally water changes.

Feed different foods like vinegar (bacteria and sponge growth), phytoplankton, and messy frozen foods like Rods.

Dose at least 2ppm silicate and maintain that at all times.

Add a bunch of KP rocks.

Add a bunch of Asterina starfish (I’ve seen linckias eat them online).

Then observe what my linckia starfish does. Observe if he gains weight. Observe which area he likes.

Oh, and no herbivores or any other invert besides for what hitchhikes on the rock.


I think that type of tank would be fun to maintain. And then I can keep my display pristine the way I prefer it.

Anyway, I doubt I’ll follow through. While I like my starfish, I don’t think the work involved would be worth it.

Not sure if you are serious or joking but it does sounds like a plan.

Personally I would replace some of the ingredients if you were serious about it.

 

[Miami Reef]

Not sure if you are serious or joking but it does sounds like a plan.

Personally I would replace some of the ingredients if you were serious about it.

I wasn’t joking in my post. Why would I be joking?

It’s just fun brainstorming. What ingredients would you change?

 

[Miami Reef]

I think there is more potential to keep live rock looking like this if we were to focus our efforts on it. I for one want my live rock covered in corals, so I’m glad there’s less competition from all the other life forms.

This is very true. Corals are also a priority of mine. It’s probably a good thing our rocks don’t stay like the first picture if we want lots of coral growth.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I wasn’t joking in my post. Why would I be joking?

It’s just fun brainstorming. What ingredients would you change?

I’d change phytoplankton and vinegar by a carbohydrate (Reef actif).

My thought comes from one of the carbon cycle in some ecosystems.

Co2 > phytoplankton > bacteria and Protozoa > Co2

The carbon cycle goes from inorganic carbon into organic carbon and back to inorganic carbon, I believe this cycle is poorly represented in reef tanks as we don’t actively encourage the decomposition and remineralisation of macro and micro algae’s that would release a mix of natural carbohydrates that are responsible in feeding the lower tropic levels that many complex organisms may depend on.
My suggestion would be to add carbohydrates (reef actif) and silica.
It’s my though that sponges are also bacteria predators and will require both to sustain energy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d change phytoplankton and vinegar by a carbohydrate (Reef actif).

My thought comes from one of the carbon cycle in some ecosystems.

Co2 > phytoplankton > bacteria and Protozoa > Co2

The carbon cycle goes from inorganic carbon into organic carbon and back to inorganic carbon, I believe this cycle is poorly represented in reef tanks as we don’t actively encourage the decomposition and remineralisation of macro and micro algae’s that would release a mix of natural carbohydrates that are responsible in feeding the lower tropic levels that many complex organisms may depend on.
My suggestion would be to add carbohydrates (reef actif) and silica.
It’s my though that sponges are also bacteria predators and will require both to sustain energy.

Why do you believe a carbohydrate will give different results, and what different results do you think it will give?

 

[sixty_reefer]

Why do you believe a carbohydrate will give different results, and what different results do you think it will give?

It’s a more closely mimic of the decomposition of phytoplankton imo

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It’s a more closely mimic of the decomposition of phytoplankton imo

What makes you think it does?

 

[Dburr1014]

My rocks are bare and become full of life. I have never bought Rock directly from the ocean though.

I don't run reef socks very often or if I do, don't change them often.
I don't run carbon often.
I do have urchins and a couple angels but they don't seem to bother sponges.

My sponges and coraline grow without a problem.

 

[Miami Reef]

My rocks are bare and become full of life. I have never bought Rick directly from the ocean though.

I don't run reef socks very often or if I do, don't change them often.
I don't run carbon often.
I do have urchins and a couple angels but they don't seem to bother sponges.

My sponges and coraline grow without a problem.

Nice! Can I see pictures?

 

[sixty_reefer]

What makes you think it does?

I thought we’re brainstorming lol

But what makes me think carbohydrate makes a difference is my experience with them in the last few months, since then I’ve seen a dendronephthya grow in size and I’ve seen a feather star regrow limbs in home aquaria. @Miami Reef ask for ideas and I reply with something that may work for him, at the end of the day I may not have all the answers for what was working but my only change from past attempts was the introduction of a carbohydrate instead of using live phytoplankton.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Miami Reef ask for ideas and I reply with something that may work for her

I’m a male.