WHY I'VE STOPPED USING INSTANT OCEAN IN MY REEF

[jda]

I sent a freshly mixed IO to triton and the lithium was in the green. It does need dry mixed if you do not mix the whole bag.

You did switch to perhaps the only salt that I would consider better than IO. I think that if you would have switched to just about any other salt, you would not be as happy. The TM does need dry mixed too - it settles and can get inconsistent alk, calcium and mag levels if you do not.

 

[David S]

@David S, could you show us some pic's ? I curious to see all the hungry corals. thanks

Siggy and All

Here are some photos. More to follow in a few days

 

[David S]

I sent a freshly mixed IO to triton and the lithium was in the green. It does need dry mixed if you do not mix the whole bag.

You did switch to perhaps the only salt that I would consider better than IO. I think that if you would have switched to just about any other salt, you would not be as happy. The TM does need dry mixed too - it settles and can get inconsistent alk, calcium and mag levels if you do not.

Yes. I agree
However, due to my limitations (apartment dweller) I make small batches (usually 2 - 3 gallons at a time).
And the potential inconsistency between batches is why when I got the Tropic Marin Salt, I did not go for the bucket size. I went for the 4 KG size box.
I'm basically looking for the most stability and am certainly willing to pay a bit more by going with the smaller amount.
Today, I did my weekly water change, and in spite of the fact I hadn't tested for a few days, the Alk and Calcium levels were right on. In the past, it was unpredictable what my results would be.
So from a dosing/stability standpoint, I've never had it so good.
I have to guard against complacency, though.
As far as the Lithium, perhaps I'll have a better idea as to the cause when I test again

 

[jda]

Dry mix that TM up really well. It is a long, bouncy journey from Germany and it can settle more than some.

 

[Scott.h]

Personally I think your lithium is not a factor in the salt. I have used tm pr prior to no water changes, but after using both.. salt is salt. No matter what you use you are going to adjust your parameters and dose accordingly anyway. I feel with my testing high lithium is a product of marine pure, phosphate removing media, or superglue.

 

[David S]

I had freshly mixed instant ocean tested and was 368.5 ppb 1/10th of what you quoted for Li. My triton test results I've seen it's pretty typical for Li to be higher. I have never worried about it.

My last triton test was 346ppb and has not shown any signs of accumulating in the 20 or so months I've been doing the near zero water change philosophy.

I've use Instant Ocean for 20 years. Approx. 5 years ago, I switch to TM and went through 6 200g buckets of it. My tank did just as good with Instant Ocean as it did with TM. I saw no difference both before the switch, during, or after. The only thing I noticed for nearly twice the cost was that I didn't have to wipe down the sides of my mixing 55g barrel. Centainly nice that TM mixed cleaner but not enough to justify using it long term. since it only takes me a minute to wipe down the sides of the mixing container between each batch.

For me, I didn't care what the alk,ca,mg levels are as I need to supplement anyways and its pennies on the dollar to use bulk supplements to make the correction to freshly mixed salt. What I do like about Instant Ocean is K, strontium and other elements are slightly elevated in Instant ocean so there was little need to add anything but some CA and Magnesium.

There is absoluting nothing wrong with using Tropic Marin, I personally didn't justify the additional costs and no perceived benefits outside of the mixing residue.

I've heard from enough people, now, who use IO salt that suggest my HI Lithium is not due to the salt. I guess, I'll have more of a clue when I retest. Other than the change of salt mixes, the only other changes I've made is I'm not using the Seachem products (nor have I needed it since I changed) and I've also stopped (at least temporarily) the use of Red Sea's A-D Trace colors.
Aside from the Hi Lithium, the only other issue was a high (4X Triton's setpoint) Iodine content.

But LI aside, the stability I'm having using the TM salt is well worth it.

 

[David S]

Dry mix that TM up really well. It is a long, bouncy journey from Germany and it can settle more than some.

Thanks for the advice
Will do

 

[jda]

I would use it too if I had a small tank. With a lot of volume, it gets pricy. TM is a great salt.

 

[siggy]

@David S thanks, Nice Colonies and I see why you need to increase your supplements they look like they are exploding!

 

[David S]

Personally I think your lithium is not a factor in the salt. I have used tm pr prior to no water changes, but after using both.. salt is salt. No matter what you use you are going to adjust your parameters and dose accordingly anyway. I feel with my testing high lithium is a product of marine pure, phosphate removing media, or superglue.

Scott
I'l probably have a better idea when I retest. I do use a lot of superglue and because my tanks size is small, it may have a pronounced effect.

 

[David S]

A few more close up views (sorry for the lack of sharpness)
I bought a Triton and ATI test kit as they were both marked down.
I'll probably use the ATI first as I'm curious to see how my RODI is. I plan on doing it in the next couple of weeks.
I'll post the results

 

[Dom]

I have to try and find the article, but I do recall reading an article about an extensive study/comparison of the most popular salt mixes. The conclusion was that the differences were negligible.

 

[David S]

All I can say is in the 5+ weeks I've been using TM my dosing has been far more consistent than it ever was when I was using IO.
It may be related to my having a relatively small tank with a lot of Coral life in it, as opposed to those with a somewhat larger tank, which may provide additional stability.

 

[FlyinBryan]

I tried TM and switched back to IO RC half way through. My corals were not happy at all and I had to dose like crazy. My tank is happy happy happy again with IO RC. Love that stuff!

 

[Newb73]

I have come to the conclusion that choice in salt is less important than 1) Good source water and 2) Increasing stability with smaller frequent water changes and 3) Making sure your refractometer/conductivity probe/digital reader are calibrated properly 4) Your test kits are working good and you are using them correctly.

Fritz costs just a tad more than IO and i don’t have to dose mg or much ca with it so i use it.

But if something is on sale ill get that instead...like the two buckets of Red sea pro i just got.

I actually keep IO on hand to lower levels a bit once in a while as my fritz puts my ca at almost 500, which is great until i try to raise my alk a bit and it percipitates.

 

[David S]

I tried TM and switched back to IO RC half way through. My corals were not happy at all and I had to dose like crazy. My tank is happy happy happy again with IO RC. Love that stuff!

It sounds like your issues with TM are what I was having with IO. Interesting...
In my case, both salts yielded healthy corals, but with IO there was a lot more dosing adjustments.
BTW How large is your tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A few more close up views (sorry for the lack of sharpness)
I bought a Triton and ATI test kit as they were both marked down.
I'll probably use the ATI first as I'm curious to see how my RODI is. I plan on doing it in the next couple of weeks.
I'll post the

I’m concerned that these RO/ DI values come without guidance.

When you get the RO/DI results, don’t over react just because you see something that is “bad”. If you look hard enough you will find any natural element in any real water sample. The question is whether it is enough to be significant to the tank cycle of that element.

 

[David S]

I’m concerned that these RO/ DI values come without guidance.

When you get the RO/DI results, don’t over react just because you see something that is “bad”. If you look hard enough you will find any natural element in any real water sample. The question is whether it is enough to be significant to the tank cycle of that element.

Thanks for the advice,Randy.
I'll keep it in mind

 

[David S]

I’m concerned that these RO/ DI values come without guidance.

When you get the RO/DI results, don’t over react just because you see something that is “bad”. If you look hard enough you will find any natural element in any real water sample. The question is whether it is enough to be significant to the tank cycle of that element.

OK, I received results from ATI test this morning.
The reason for this testing was prompted over concerns about my Lithium levels and also my Iodine levels, both of which were somewhat elevated as per the evaluation by Triton analysis done on 10/5.
I hypothesized that the high Lithium level may be due to the salt I was using at the time (IO) or the Seachem additives I used whenever my alkalinity/calcium levels were not in balance, even after using Kalk and ESV 2 part.
I therefore switched to Tropic Marin (about a week after the Triton test) and stopped using any Seachem products.

Below is a link to the results with comments on what I consider relevant items. First the RO/DI analysis:

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/publicAnalysis/10953

I expected great results from this analysis as the tap water in NYC is excellent. Accordingly, virtually all the elements showed at 0 or undetectable, with the exception of Boron which showed .01 mg/l and Silicon 12.30 ug/l.
Don't expect this to be a concern, but I was wondering if I might want to change an RO membrane (I run 2). My TDS meter shows 0 for the ionized product and when I test the water coming out of the RO membrane the TDS is usually 1 at the outset and after 5 minutes or so it drops to 0.
The thing is I've had the original RO membrane since I bought the unit over 4 years ago. I added the 2nd RO membrane a few months later. I've had a fresh RO membrane on hand for some time but as the TDS would seem to indicate, I felt no need to replace either of them.

Below is a link to the tank water analysis:

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/publicAnalysis/10269

The first thing you will notice is the relatively low salinity level (30.10 PPT). I do like to keep the salinity a bit low (between 1.024 - 1.025 SG) but not that low.
I tested the salinity of my tank (after concluding the ATI testing) and noticed it was only 1.023 sg. I attribute this to the water change, I did the previous day, which apparently had a lower SG than I thought.

DKH- As mentioned in another thread the DKH reported by ATI is significantly lower than my Salifert and Hanna Checker showed (which allowing for corrections, as per Randy were very close).

MG is high at 1481 mg/l. Not a concern as I prefer to keep my magnesium on the high side. This is slightly down from the 1501 mg/l that the Triton test showed on 10/5.
My concern here are my own testing kits, which are Salifert and Red Sea. In both instances they tested significantly lower than the ICP tests.
The Salifert seems to give lower results than the Red Sea. For this sample Salifert indicated 1320 and Red Sea indicated 1380 mg/l.

CA - I have no problem with the results. They matched my test and it's where I'd like my Calcium to be. I was just wondering about ATI's low reference level.

K is also high. Predictably, as it came close to my test and I prefer to keep my Potassium elevated.

SR and MO - Both these trace elements showed potentially deficient in previous Triton tests. Many reefers suggest Strontium is somewhat important for Coral health. So I began dosing a Strontium Molybdenum additive made by Kent. These are the only "none essential" trace elements since I switched to Tropic Marin.
Testing indicates my SR is a bit on the high side and MO on the low side (however this test detected MO as opposed to the Triton which did not). Will continue to dose but not as much.

LI - OK this was one of my concerns. When tested by Triton, on 10/5, it was 3,561 ug/l. Now it it 240 ug/l.
I'm not in a position to determine what may have caused the dramatic drop. I can say the 3 things I did differently since 10/5, were...
1. Switched from Instant Ocean to Tropic Marin Pro
2. Discontinued the use of Reef Advantage Calcium (crystal) Reef Calcium (liquid) and Reef Builder (powder) by Seachem
3. Discontinued using Red Sea ABCD Trace elements.

Iodine - I was concerned about this element as it showed rather high on Triton test (260 ug/l). This was the main reason I stopped dosing Red Sea trace elements. Now it's down to 107 ug/l. Still a bit high, perhaps. Will see what happens when I retest, in several months.

FE - Here's another element which shows up on the ATI test but did not have detectable levels when tested by Triton. It seems a bit high. I do have occasional Cyano and or Diatoms, albeit nothing serious. Could that be the cause?

HG (and AL) - Yet another element(S) that has measureable levels on ATI (0.65 ug/l) but non detectable with Triton. Problem with my heater? Seems OK. Will monitor in future.
Anyway, I now know it is not coming from my RO/DI water.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Below is a link to the results with comments on what I consider relevant items. First the RO/DI analysis:

http://lab.atiaquaristik.com/publicAnalysis/10953

I expected great results from this analysis as the tap water in NYC is excellent. Accordingly, virtually all the elements showed at 0 or undetectable, with the exception of Boron which showed .01 mg/l and Silicon 12.30 ug/l.
Don't expect this to be a concern, but I was wondering if I might want to change an RO membrane (I run 2). My TDS meter shows 0 for the ionized product and when I test the water coming out of the RO membrane the TDS is usually 1 at the outset and after 5 minutes or so it drops to 0.
The thing is I've had the original RO membrane since I bought the unit over 4 years ago. I added the 2nd RO membrane a few months later. I've had a fresh RO membrane on hand for some time but as the TDS would seem to indicate, I felt no need to replace either of them.

We cannot see the RO/DI data without your log in info, but the boron is too small to worry about in any context. If you had a diatom problem the silicon might be worth exploring, but I added way, way more than that (70 x) by dosing and it was rapidly consumed (90% decline in 3 days)..

I personally would not do anything about the RO/DI.