Why most “Alive Arrival Guarantees” fall short

[Doctorgori]

I get it: shipping issues, idiot customers, poor handling, variable tank conditions….No way can vendors guarantee livestock shelf life past 24hrs, in fact many have cut that down to as low as 12 (i.e Algae Barn”);

But shipping issues and variables aside, what can a customer do when you are sold livestock that arrives alive but by any measure will have a limited shelf life upon arrival? What about replacements? Sure, cool, fine, but you have to pay those insane shipping charges again, nobody profits from that except UPS ..

There is a BIG loophole in many vendors “Live arrival guarantee”, a no mans land wherein they sold you half dead garbage, but your best recourse is either euthanize the critter then and there to recoup your cheeze or accept the inevitable loss

Examples being: over stressed corals or fish that arrive in leaky bags; freshly glued boogers and fish that shouldn't have been sold in the first place…(If anyone has seen similar in LFS livebearers, please remark) …see below (here is a related thread for reference)



^^^ so to the inexperienced eyes, there isnt anything that just jumps out at you, but many of us started in FW, would you pick these two out of your LFS and buy them?
Have you seen this condition before? ( hint, they are not just emaciated and/or underfed)

 

[ros3to]

To certain extent I can understand some of these policies, but if we have vendors that offer 15 day guarantee why cant most if not all offer the same deal?
For shipping, I understand sometimes there is delays but does that mean I have to be completely out of my money?
Example last time I placed an order online for some coral, there was a 1 day delay, most the the coral I received was in horrible shape but still alive, the vendor was contacted immediately after receiving said box. 6 hrs in about half of the coral received was dead 24 hrs later ALL the coral received was gone, what does the seller do? Offer $20 store credit. Not even 10% of the total order not including shipping.
Back on to what you were talking about, that fish Is clearly sick and should not have been shipped to begin with I'd be complaining to whoever sold that to you.

 

[ros3to]

And also as a result of said shipment I ended up with euphylia eating flat worms, my mistake was following said vendor recommendation to not dip the coral so no more stress would be indused.

 

[VintageReefer]

Sbb gives 14 days and covers shipping delays. Even covers if you are not happy with the corals color! Full satisfaction guarantee. Not just “arrive alive”

 

[Reefer Matt]

I honestly don’t know how vendors make money selling anything under $100 a shipment. The shipping charge can be much higher than the amount they charge sometimes. It seems they have a good potential to lose money, imo. Especially with the increase of shipping delays these days.

But to answer the question, many credit cards give you extra perks to get your money back when you aren’t satisfied. But I suggest trying to work it out with the vendor first.

 

[rhitee93]

I know it is an idealistic losing battle, but this is why I do what I can to patronize the brick and mortar stores within a 90-minute drive of me. One of these days, mail order is going to be our only option though.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I know it is an idealistic losing battle, but this is why I do what I can to patronize the brick and mortar stores within a 90-minute drive of me. One of these days, mail order is going to be our only option though.

This... So this.

 

[exnisstech]

I only buy coral from a very limited list of vendors mostly because I won't buy glow in the dark coral pasted on a black background not because of poor guarantees. I stopped buying fish and inverts online a few years ago. I think I bought my last fish when Foster and Smith owned LA and they were still awesome to deal with. Now I buy local and have a store that will order what I want if it's available and they assume the risk of it surviving after being shipped. If I'm will to accept the risk and the fish look healthy in the bag the owner will discount them and I can pick them up on arrival and avoid them having to be acclimated twice.

 

[Doctorgori]

Sbb gives 14 days and covers shipping delays. Even covers if you are not happy with the corals color! Full satisfaction guarantee. Not just “arrive alive”

I didnt know this….

I know it is an idealistic losing battle, but this is why I do what I can to patronize the brick and mortar stores within a 90-minute drive of me. One of these days, mail order is going to be our only option though.

We just had a reputable brick n mortar close doors… from the above picture anyone can see the advantage of picking out a fish in person….the above specimen would have NEVER left my fish room, yet here we are…
If we have to transact online anymore Im going WYSIWYG …my lesson learned

Eventually the consumer will speak and hopefully other vendors take notice of the increased sales

 

[Doctorgori]

Back on to what you were talking about, that fish Is clearly sick and should not have been shipped to begin with I'd be complaining to whoever sold that to you.

The rub is the NON REFUNDABLE shipping charges (pardon the shouting)
Anyway…

I am irked, I sent them a email on a previous order because it was the EXACT same issue: livebearer wasting syndrome (or whatever) …he claimed shipping stress (and to their credit, refunded me minus shipping of course) but anyone who frequents LFS and peeks into any batch of livebearers has seen this before…prognosis is bleak for these fish ..

One time is a honest mistake…but twice…

I can only conclude callousness or disease ignorance/incompetence….

 

[BryanM]

I stopped getting things the the various LFSs near me, even though it feels cruel to box up fish and mail them across the country.

I prefer FedEx because I rarely get beat up boxes, only do overnight, and I try and research vendors (mostly here) first, for their reliability, success, etc.

I also prefer aquacultered fish, they just seem stronger and healthier.

Since going this route I've had one fish die, but that's because he jumped through the autofeeder plate, knocked the plate across the room, and became a hardwood surfer in the middle of the night... I've not lost any fish or corals due to shipping going with these methods.

 

[Doctorgori]

Now I buy local and have a store that will order what I want if it's available and they assume the risk of it surviving after being shipped.

For those of us not in a major metro we are short of options… I will have to drive a ways to a LFS, but regardless Im thinking we are headed towards a hybrid ORA thing wherein the LFS does what you suggest: special order “drop ship” to the LFS and then a hybrid quarantine thing…
I dunno, the current online sales thing isnt working per se…at least not with these smaller co ops or whomever

 

[Doctorgori]

I prefer FedEx because I rarely get beat up boxes, only do overnight, and I try and research vendors (mostly here) first, for their reliability, success, etc.

I’m not sure why businesses with perishables even use UPS..Ive stated before Ive worked for both UPS and USPS..IME: absolutely brutal with package handling, I know this from direct experience as a mail handler LOL

 

[Rusty_L_Shackleford]

I know it is an idealistic losing battle, but this is why I do what I can to patronize the brick and mortar stores within a 90-minute drive of me. One of these days, mail order is going to be our only option though.

Personally I'll drive a long way before I order online. Jamrock Corals is less than 15 min from my house and Coastal Reef in Wilmington is 90 minutes, we make the trip a couple of times a month. Sometimes if we're feeling froggy we'll make the 3+ hours trip to Charlotte and hit 3 or 4 lfs as a day trip. Even if I'm special ordering something i feel much better doing it through someone I have an established relationship with. Plus they'll check in on my tanks when I go out of town, help me source random odds and ends for whatever project I'm working on at the time, etc.

 

[Doctorgori]

Personally I'll drive a long way before I order online. Jamrock Corals is less than 15 min from my house and Coastal Reef in Wilmington is 90 minutes, we make the trip a couple of times a month. Sometimes if we're feeling froggy we'll make the 3+ hours trip to Charlotte and hit 3 or 4 lfs as a day trip. Even if I'm special ordering something i feel much better doing it through someone I have an established relationship with. Plus they'll check in on my tanks when I go out of town, help me source random odds and ends for whatever project I'm working on at the time, etc.

I have not made the trip to Jamrock yet but plan on it…

There is a online operation in Charleston or Columbia I think,
but being a Ohio native a 3hr drive is like waaay out of town to me; thats equivalent to going to Pittsburg, Cincy, Columbus , Buffalo, Detroit, Indy … my perspective of distances are skewed … LOL

 

[fish farmer]

I’m not sure why businesses with perishables even use UPS..Ive stated before Ive worked for both UPS and USPS..IME: absolutely brutal with package handling, I know this from direct experience as a mail handler LOL

Is that a reflection of your local UPS?

I generally have used Fed Ex more in my professional career, but they can be incompetent as well.

I've used Fed Ex and UPS for shipping trout eggs which have a two to three day shelf life. I use Fed Ex to ship from Vermont to Virginia, the place is literally a 24 hour DRIVE. Overnight boxes get sent to Memphis and hopefully make it out of there then back north to the destination in Wytheville. Granted weather is usually the delaying factor and unfortunately my window of shipping is only a couple of days, send a day late...it is going to be next week.

My UPS shipments are to Pennsylvania, which generally don't go past Pennsylvania since there is a hub there.

Personally I used Fed Ex to ship a box of seafood from Rhode Island, which is a 5 hour DRIVE from me. Why the heck is my box of seafood going to Memphis, then New Jersey for another night for two days to get to me?

I currently try to use UPS for regional overnight shipping, both coral companies in my region will use UPS, Cultivated Reef in Maine and Pacific East Aquaculture in Maryland, the boxes go the direction they are supposed to go.

 

[Doctorgori]

Is that a reflection of your local UPS?

Sort of…UPS is pretty rigid from a employee POV…Someone left a trip hazard on the floor in a clear safety violation and when I got jacked up from it they instead fired me rather than pay for workman's comp…even admitted it was SOP to do so …pure evil
As far as fragile/ perishable handling, well lets just say everything goes “airmail” inside the warehouse, except no aircraft are used…
Again, pure evil ..
Choose Fedex everytime for perishables

 

[cdemoss01]

I get it: shipping issues, idiot customers, poor handling, variable tank conditions….No way can vendors guarantee livestock shelf life past 24hrs, in fact many have cut that down to as low as 12 (i.e Algae Barn”);

But shipping issues and variables aside, what can a customer do when you are sold livestock that arrives alive but by any measure will have a limited shelf life upon arrival? What about replacements? Sure, cool, fine, but you have to pay those insane shipping charges again, nobody profits from that except UPS ..

There is a BIG loophole in many vendors “Live arrival guarantee”, a no mans land wherein they sold you half dead garbage, but your best recourse is either euthanize the critter then and there to recoup your cheeze or accept the inevitable loss

Examples being: over stressed corals or fish that arrive in leaky bags; freshly glued boogers and fish that shouldn't have been sold in the first place…(If anyone has seen similar in LFS livebearers, please remark) …see below (here is a related thread for reference)



^^^ so to the inexperienced eyes, there isnt anything that just jumps out at you, but many of us started in FW, would you pick these two out of your LFS and buy them?
Have you seen this condition before? ( hint, they are not just emaciated and/or underfed)

Make an article on this

 

[damsels are not mean]

I know it is an idealistic losing battle, but this is why I do what I can to patronize the brick and mortar stores within a 90-minute drive of me. One of these days, mail order is going to be our only option though.

I do this for fish and inverts but nothing beats the internet for coral, sponge, and macroalgae options. Some animals are also hard to get from large wholesalers but diver direct places like KP Aquatics can go look for something.

 

[Doctorgori]

Make an article on this

I got the “ Terrance Howard” Grammarly add-on this black Friday…maybe Ill try it out