Will nitrate at 0 cause birdsnest to die?

[Formulator]

I think it depends on how you interpret the outcome. The corals in nutrient deplete studies don't seem to RTN/STN like the birdsnest in this thread. Also, I could search up many other threads that have reported similar birdsnest coral problems that have >10ppm nitrate.
While I'll stay away from the ideal nutrient level discussion, there certainly seems a difference in the way corals decline in scientific studies vs hobby, in regards to nutrient limitation.

I agree with that. I actually suspect there is a flow issue in this case. This inside-out die off is common of dense branching corals like birdsnest and anacropora. High flow is necessary to penetrate into the dense interior or it will STN from inside-out like that.

 

[Reeferbadness]

Did you keep the refuge?

I am trying to switch things up. I have always kept a refuge on all my tanks in the past. Three weeks ago I threw away all the cheato and removed the container from the sump that held it. No change yet, still zero no3.

I still have the refugium - but try and keep the chaeto to about softball size vs letting it get bigger than a basketball like the past. i dosed neonitrate until levels became more stable - now don't dose any longer as long as nitrate tests show some trace amount (usually 5 - 10 )

 

[Reeferbadness]

Can I see your refugium? I added some chaeto too, they grown very fast that quickly depletes the KH in my tank. I'd like to know what a reasonable range for maintaining it is.

light is off now but as far as size - i like to keep my chaeto around the size of a softball vs a basketball or bigger when it get's out of control. Usually harvest 1x a week

 

[Solo McReefer]

Those are some nice acros

Clarification

Those are not mine. They are nice, not my glass of ice tea

I did an image search

I like what Zeovit does to bring down nutrients, I am not one who likes the Easter Egg look. I like the no algae look though

All my acros, are

little nubbins still stuck on frag plugs

 

[crappie]

I agree with that. I actually suspect there is a flow issue in this case. This inside-out die off is common of dense branching corals like birdsnest and anacropora. High flow is necessary to penetrate into the dense interior or it will STN from inside-out like tha

I agree with that. I actually suspect there is a flow issue in this case. This inside-out die off is common of dense branching corals like birdsnest and anacropora. High flow is necessary to penetrate into the dense interior or it will STN from inside-out like that.

I will put a pump facing it for added flow…

 

[Dburr1014]

I will put a pump facing it for added flow…

Not directly, indirect flow. Direct will blow the tissue off of it and kill it.

 

[crappie]

I have noticed another birds nest starting to show the same symptoms. I’ve started dosing 4ml/day ammonia bicarbonate per Randy’s method and also added another pump for flow. Nitrates have went up to 1.1 and I’m aiming for 5ppm.First pic is new bn starting to show signs of problems second is main bn I’m trying to save

 

[CHSUB]

I have noticed another birds nest starting to show the same symptoms. I’ve started dosing 4ml/day ammonia bicarbonate per Randy’s method and also added another pump for flow. Nitrates have went up to 1.1 and I’m aiming for 5ppm.First pic is new bn starting to show signs of problems second is main bn I’m trying to save

Update on your coral?

 

[crappie]

Birdsnest are still the same. Still trying to get nitrates up. Dosing 10 mL of ammonia bicarbonate now. I’ve got one more dosing pump and I’m thinking about using it and increasing the ammonia bicarbonate from 10 to 20ml spread out twice a day and until my nitrates are at least showing 5. I think my first readings of 1.1 on the nitrates were false or just a bad reading because ever since all I keep reading is zero. Also thinking about shutting my skimmer off to help raise the nitrates. It’s only a 40 breeder and I change 5 gallons of water faithfully every week so I’m not sure if I need the extra filtration from the skimmer if my nitrates and phosphates are pretty much zero anyways. I will post some updated pictures when I get home tonight.

 

[Dburr1014]

It’s only a 40 breeder and I change 5 gallons of water faithfully every week

Stop doing weekly, try every other week

phosphates are pretty much zero anyways.

This is worse than having zero nitrates.
Get this up BEFORE nitrates

 

[rishma]

This is worse than having zero nitrates.
Get this up BEFORE nitrates

agree. I have frequently had nitrates go to zero (I try to keep them around 5) but have not observed coral issues coincident with zero nitrates except a few times. I try not to stay near zero long term but I am patient in bringing them back up if it happens.

I can see my corals react negatively when phosphates get close to zero on Hanna ULR checker. Corals look bad quickly in my tank if that happens.

Also, my battles with Dinos started with zero PO4 so I really try to avoid that.

 

[crappie]

Well when I say phosphate near zero I mean I keep it around .03. I’m dosing 10ml neophos once daily to maintain that. What do you recommend? I thought .01-.03 was optional?

 

[Dburr1014]

Well when I say phosphate near zero I mean I keep it around .03. I’m dosing 10ml neophos once daily to maintain that. What do you recommend? I thought .01-.03 was optional?

0.05 to 0.15 is the new optimal.

Coral need 0.03 at minimum.

 

[rishma]

Well when I say phosphate near zero I mean I keep it around .03. I’m dosing 10ml neophos once daily to maintain that. What do you recommend? I thought .01-.03 was optional?

0.05 to 0.15 is the new optimal.

Coral need 0.03 at minimum.

Yes there has been a big shift in the consensus around PO4 in recent years. This happened in part because so many of us messed up our tanks shooting for 0.03. At the same time, a lot of amazing tanks had 0.1+.

So the recommended range is higher now, in part to keep from hitting zero because the margin of error on our checkers/kits is an issue.

I take action quick if mine falls below 0.05. I aim for 0.06-0.1. I take action if it’s above 0.12, but I am patient about bringing it back down. A bit high is WAY better to me than a bit low.

There is nothing magical about the numbers I use. Lots of great tanks are higher. I think 0.05-0.15 is probably good.

 

[Dburr1014]

Lou Ekus seminar slide.
Thought this was interesting.
Uptake by coral needs minimum 0.02

 

[blecki]

Birdsnest can thrive in the worst conditions and RTN in perfect ones. It's motto is GROW FAST DIE YOUNG.

Anyway every big colony of it I've ever seen has been like a shell of polyps around a dead interior. Even the highest flow doesn't help when it starts closing itself off.

 

[Dburr1014]

Birdsnest can thrive in the worst conditions and RTN in perfect ones. It's motto is GROW FAST DIE YOUNG.

Anyway every big colony of it I've ever seen has been like a shell of polyps around a dead interior. Even the highest flow doesn't help when it starts closing itself off.

So true!

 

[crappie]

Pic updates

 

[crappie]

Just tested and nitrates still 0 and phos up to .04.
Currently dosing 10ml each of neophos and ammonium bicarbonate daily. My skimmer needs a good cleaning so I’m going to remove it for a week and retest to see if that helps. Does any think removing the skimmer a bad idea in this low nutrient system? I’d like to maintain the weekly 5g water changes to help replenish and remove stuff I don’t rest for.

 

[Badblackdog]

Lou Ekus seminar slide.
Thought this was interesting.
Uptake by coral needs minimum 0.02

Could you give more info on the part about Corals don’t need nitrate in the second bullet point? Is this just for SPS corals?

My nitrates were undetectable for a long time so I started dosing nitrates. 10ml a day to keep it between 4 and 5. I always thought it was my back wall full of GSP that was soaking up all the nitrates. At the same time, my phosphates were .42 at the highest. I did water changes and added phosphate remover and now it’s down significantly. It’s been three days since I added fresh phosphate remover so I’m going to test the water now. I’m expecting somewhere in the .1 to .15 range. I will update later.