15 R2R people should divide up a known accurate sample via mail, run their hobby tests on it, postup

brandon429

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Nobody does this for ammonia, they do it for the other params.

We need an ammonia version of this test

I can already tell there must be some confounds to even hand reporting by the masses, going off cycling threads alone. I think we approach cycling using ballpark figures and measures and many never find permission to call a cycle completed due to that. They'll consider bacteria as the variable issue, not the testing. its the other way around im claiming


that would be my ideal thread for 2017

someone makes a known and verified accurate to lab standards ammonia water sample at very low levels and sends it to 15 people. They all run their API, saliferts and red seas on the sample and post up the readings as they see it in their varying conditions

matter of fact, do more than one sample per mailer and include a zero ammonia vial among the options. vials could be numbered for feedback/test results and the sender keeps a list of the zero vials
the testers post pics of their readings and test vials.

then a big reveal of the final numbers after results collected

from the results someone could make a sick article. you can upscale that variation (predicted) or total compliance among testing variables to so many actions and misactions in reefing


we're either all pretty much testing accurately or we're not, man Id love to know that outcome. from what I gain in post snippets, this is horseshoeing.


of all params on the planet one could run this test on, low level ammonia would bend my ear the best

all new cyclers are using ammonia and basing their entire reefing paradigm on its readings without question. learning to debate a test kit should be part of reefing 101 preps imo.
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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Id pay some paypal bucks a bit to help the cause if its needed and if someone wants to run it and if they make it cheep

I would seriously paypal any reasonable amnt to forward this endeavor but I don't have a way to make or verify known ammonia samples...someone w a medical lab or a water treatment lab chime in

maybe if someone does all the prep and gets the parameters of the test and controls all worked out I could fund some of the mailing or something but in the end I think that 15 people wont measure the ammonia sets the same way which makes lots of actions we take in reefing questionable

if 15 people and 8 using the api get it all the same for each vial, including the zero's, im floored and it doesn't line up with what 16 yrs of posts say on the internet.

need this data to get there
 
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brett_schn

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I have learned from my uncle and other family members who are scientists that this would need more people (a few different tests of each kit by different people.
 

Labridaedicted

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I have learned from my uncle and other family members who are scientists that this would need more people (a few different tests of each kit by different people.
And ideally, each person should do each test. We all have our quirks when testing.
 

Daniel@R2R

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Cool idea!
 

Sharvey103

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Great idea. I'm in and would be willing to put in some PayPal bucks. Randy Holmes Farley would be a great standard maker and referee.
 

brett_schn

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Why don’t we get brs involved in this and they can make a brstv investigates video on it. That would save us money and bring them more money
 
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brandon429

brandon429

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I have begged them to do so in pm :)

Executives at API want this test so bad, they should fund it Im not joking someone contact them they'll drop ship us a ton of workables I bet. they have the biggest dog to prove in the fight imo. much claim for cycling misadventure has been laid at their feet.


Im also curious of how ammonia samples can change and degrade during shipping this may be a very tricky thing to manage, not sure. perhaps samples need to be filled without gas areas at the top, not sure how oxygen might alter things. nitrification in transport, via bacteria in the water (yes, nitrifiers are in tank water, that's how they travel to surfaces when inoculated, they're everywhere in the tank and they are on suspended floc in the water too, nitrifiers are associated with substrate though pelagic substrates exist as well)
 
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Rufus’ goofs

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I have begged them to do so in pm :)

Executives at API want this test so bad, they should fund it Im not joking someone contact them they'll drop ship us a ton of workables I bet. Like in that movie summer school where he takes initiative to ask for one pair of sunglasses returned and he gets a whole box instead. nobody under the age of 35 w get that joke wo googling


I'm 23 and I got that immediately!!
 
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brandon429

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I erased it cuz I thought it would get crickets nice one man :) :)
 

morpheas

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Not sure about ammonia but anyone can do that for calcium for instance and really anything ICP and hobby test kits test (magnesium, phosphorus, potassium). All is needed is for someone to collect some water to send to Triton and then some extra to send to people and test yourself. Not sure if calcium would float your boat really (but phosphorus definitely is interesting).

I actually do that with my ICP tests regularly in which I collect a half a liter along with the Triton sample and use it as a "standard" afterwards till my next testing. For instance, I measured 410 ppm calcium and Triton reports 457. So now I know that the test kit I have is under-reporting by that much.
 

Rufus’ goofs

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Would love to participate. I've been considering purchasing mechanical pipettes for doing my own tests. I figured if I get a couple of pretty accurate ones, it would greatly reduce user error in tests.
anyone else do this, or consider it? would love to hear about that as well
I erased it cuz I thought it would get crickets nice one man :) :)

That's a shame. it was well placed.
 
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brandon429

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in brainstorm I am strongly thinking that since ammonia is converted so rapidly in biosystems all samples have to be with sterile or autoclaved water and they need to be capped and handled as aseptically as possible in preparation. preventing decay or nitrogen species chng during shipping and handling I think might require special preps awaiting chemist detailing, all fun to consider.
 
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brandon429

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agreed that's a good call. We have reef meetings in Lubbock that have 15 +

and other cities w have that too. We could arrange a one-destination place to have a bucket of samples sitting ready for someones reef meeting and they all bring their testers to that one place. All samples will have been treated equally at that point. an ammonia version of this comparison has already been done, I think its an old reefbuilders article im 99% sure. from about 2005 that may have even been before RB not sure but ive seen the article and read it a few times.

but I want the 2017 update version. we can put the system on trial. In the old article a few of the testers were using expired reagents we want to control for that here, Im hoping in the end to imagine if all these testers were basing a cycling end date on their particular method, how many would have it right
 

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