Are Bio Pellets becoming a thing of the past?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hold on one moment.....this is certainly true if we talk about life, death and decomposition, but in our systems the bacteria is "eating" whatever carbon we are providing and then utilizing that carbon to grow, build cell walls, proteins, enzymes and everything biological. Ideally when this bacteria is in its prime of life, it gets ripped out of the water column by our skimmers, never having a chance to die and decompose, with one of the final byproducts being carbon dioxide. Now I will concede that there is "respiratory" carbon dioxide released during the bacteria growing, but have to believe that this is minimal.

Sorry, I did not mean to say that no carbon was incorporated into tissue biomass. When I said all organic carbon dosing I meant all types, not every molecule dosed. That wasn't well said.

It certainly is incorporated into tissue to some extent.. But the CO2 produced is not likely to be minimal. I do not have data handy for ethanol or acetic acid or biopellets, but these two papers show that carbon incorporation into rapidly growing bacteria using glucose is about half, the other approximate half (a bit less than half in one paper, and a bit more than half in another) being CO2:

http://www.microbiologyresearch.org...est&checksum=953C93C7D70E6B358CD87B1002EB7E04

see Figure 3 for biomass vs CO2 incorporation of the C

And in this paper its 40-60% incorporation into biomass:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15668759

Carbon mass balance methodology to characterize the growth of pigmented marine bacteria under conditions of light cycling.

Abstract
A carbon mass balance methodology employing minimal measurements was applied to heterotrophic and photoheterotrophic marine bacteria grown under constant dilution and exposed to 12-h intervals of light or darkness. Carbon mass balance calculations using measurements taken every 3 h closed to within 93-103% using dissolved organic carbon, biomass carbon and CO2 production data only, indicating that background interference from dissolved inorganic carbon variations in the amended seawater medium was not significant. Neither strain was observed to sustain a net CO2 fixation using paramagnetic measurement of oxygen uptake rates (OUR), indicating a need for more sensitive on-line measurement techniques for OUR. Photoheterotrophic growth demonstrated lower carbon-mole biomass yields (0.41+/-0.026 vs. 0.64+/-0.013 mol mol(-1)) despite higher specific glucose uptake rates (0.025 vs. 0.02 mol mol(-1) h(-1)), suggesting that bioreactor-based study of marine bacteria can present growth modes that are different from those encountered in the marine environment.

 

[Oldreefer44]

That means NOPOX?

Actually no. Have had no algae issues ever since using Flucanozole (6 months or so ago) to get rid of a GHA infestation. PO tests at .02 very consistently. Not sure why but am not complaining!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Actually no. Have had no algae issues ever since using Flucanozole (6 months or so ago) to get rid of a GHA infestation. PO tests at .02 very consistently. Not sure why but am not complaining!

OK, thanks for clarifying.

 

[aarbutina]

Now I could be wrong, but in my opinion it doesn't have as much to do with people walking away from biopellets specifically, and has more to do with people moving away from running ULNs. From my experience biopellets can do a great job maintaining nearly undetectable level of nitrates and Phosphates. That being said as folks start to chase specific nitrate and phosphate levels, that would not have traditionally been considered ULN, dosing with vinegar or vodka or NoPOx are the better tools to achieve this goal.

It should also be noted there there are loads of threads on this forum about how people can't bring their nutrient level up no matter what they do, including turning off their skimmers and drastically increasing their feeding schedules.

 

[GoVols]

Them bio-pellets scare the be-jeebers out of me ... over the long haul.

JMO

 

[HiddenUser]

I am on attempt #2 of Biopellets.

I had been using NOPOX for a while, but could never really find the correct dosage to control the bacterial film I was seeing. I would reduce the dosage to control the bacterial film, but then it wouldn't be enough to maintain the lower nitrate and phosphate levels. I would increase the dosage and my nitrates and phosphates would stay on the lower end, but the bacterial film would be so bad that it would end up clogging up my return pump within a week. I was frequently shutting off my return pump and then using filter socks to skim out all the snot looking stuff that was draining back into my sump.

I switched to Biopellets 2 months ago, dosed some Microbacter7 for a month and so far everything is doing fine. I'm using one of Reef Octopus's new Pellet Reactors and their Biosphere Pellets. Still doing 20% water changes every two weeks, but I have definitely noticed that the algae and slime issues I've had are currently absent from my weekly list of problems to deal with, haha...

 

[GoVols]

I am on attempt #2 of Biopellets.

I had been using NOPOX for a while, but could never really find the correct dosage to control the bacterial film I was seeing. I would reduce the dosage to control the bacterial film, but then it wouldn't be enough to maintain the lower nitrate and phosphate levels. I would increase the dosage and my nitrates and phosphates would stay on the lower end, but the bacterial film would be so bad that it would end up clogging up my return pump within a week. I was frequently shutting off my return pump and then using filter socks to skim out all the snot looking stuff that was draining back into my sump.

I switched to Biopellets 2 months ago, dosed some Microbacter7 for a month and so far everything is doing fine. I'm using one of Reef Octopus's new Pellet Reactors and their Biosphere Pellets. Still doing 20% water changes every two weeks, but I have definitely noticed that the algae and slime issues I've had are currently absent from my weekly list of problems to deal with, haha...

Do you have your bio-pellet reactor's output going into a protein skimmer?

 

[BigJohnny]

What are better options? I was manually dosing Vodka but after reading several of your articles and responses to other posts I’ve switched to manually dosing Vinegar. I have 2 open/in-used dosing heads just wasn’t sure if I could safely auto dose vinegar.

Just dose with a dosing pump, especially if you already have open heads. IMO if your going to switch to biopellets do it AFTER vacation. I strongly recommend never making changes to your system before a vacation. You never know how it will react and you won't be there to handle any issues. Biopellets can also be hard to dial in initially (so I've heard).

I don't see why you can't dose vinegar with a dosing pump, but I may be wrong. You could certainly dilute it with RODI and just dose more, just in case.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't see why you can't dose vinegar with a dosing pump, but I may be wrong. You could certainly dilute it with RODI and just dose more, just in case.

That's how I dosed straight vinegar, after I switched from manual dosing.

 

[solitude127]

I've been using biopellets for the past 7 - 8 years. Like most, there was a trial and error period but I think I have figured out what volume of pellets work best for my system.

 

[imustbenuts]

Correct me if I’m wrong sir but isn’t NOPOX basically Vodka and Vinegar?

According to the NoPoX box it’s Denatured Ethanol (Methanol)

 

[cumbeje]

Curious why you choose to dose and not use another method of nitrate/phosphate export such as a refuge? Refuge would be considered self regulating.

 

[redfishbluefish]

According to the NoPoX box it’s Denatured Ethanol (Methanol)

Denatured ethanol is not methanol....it's still ethanol with a "poison" added so we can't drink it. Some professor analysed NOPOX and found it to be ethanol and acetic acid (vinegar). There might be a touch of methanol in there....and that would make it "denatured".

 

[Sir Chris]

I purchased a reactor under my rating as overdosing is a problem and bleach’s out sps. They take PO4 and turn it into a protein so skimmers can then remove it or feeds ur corals. U can’t run it with out a skimmer or waterchange daily... but once it’s dialed or tuned and like hitman said use 25% as 40% will prolly be ur mark like me. And went with a smaller tube so better contact and dwell time. I love it and would never change 2 vodka or sugar. That means bacteria can’t keep up so ur feeding em to help so can cause a bad crash on a trip. Peace of mind is usually pricy but proper tuning ull b happy. I got mine when tbaquatics was closing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

According to the NoPoX box it’s Denatured Ethanol (Methanol)

That's not entirely correct. It contains ethanol and a small amount of methanol, but also acetic acid (much more than the methanol) and isopropanol.

It is likely just that they need to list those things and not the others due to some regulation. The ingredients (acetic acid and ethanol mainly and smaller amounts of methanol and isopropanol) have been demonstrated analytically. I suspect it is a mix of acetic acid and denatured ethanol, and the methanol and isopropanol are the denaturing agents, but can't be certain why they included the methanol and isopropanol.

 

[imustbenuts]

Denatured ethanol is not methanol....it's still ethanol with a "poison" added so we can't drink it. Some professor analysed NOPOX and found it to be ethanol and acetic acid (vinegar). There might be a touch of methanol in there....and that would make it "denatured".

I’m just stating what is written on the box.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Curious why you choose to dose and not use another method of nitrate/phosphate export such as a refuge? Refuge would be considered self regulating.

I used a macroalgae refugium, vinegar dosing, large rock filled refugia, and GFO all at the same time. Each method has its own pros and cons, and I'm a fan of using more than one to make up for that lack in any individual method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m just stating what is written on the box.

The methanol is the denaturing agent listed to make the ethanol in it undrinkable (and hence not regulated and taxed the same way).

 

[Sir Chris]

Also what salt are u using. I may have missed that. Dosing 2 much usally says there’s an issue with life support that u have 2 b that person daily dosing something. I dose alk daily 8.4 that and mag and calcium. Water changes test PO4 alk mag calcium and nitrate and dose all I do for this HOB and put a diy skimmer in at night for phosguard 2 pull PO4 down. U can say I’m a complete mixed reef. 28 sps and 8 monti chalices and acans. My 75 will b using the smaller reactor 1st as a test on efficiency. I think pellets are so efficient people use them wrong and overdose

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'll bet the NOPOX you have smells like vinegar, which would be the acetic acid.