Are really stringy white poops a sign of internal parasites or is it a myth?

[HotRocks]

Im in the UK which is still unfortunately part of Europe as we speak! There are sick fish sold here all the time so i dont know where all these strict regulations are? I got back into this hobby after nearly 20 years out and last time i never used to qt,acclimate or anything. This time i have qt everything i have bought,some success and also sadly some failure but i know that out of the dozen or so fish i have bought,every single one of them has something wrong with it with the majority of them having flukes. So i will carry on doing what i am doing as i am sure everyone that has posted here will carry on doing what they believe is the right thing to do. I just think its a bit wrong of some people to try to change what people are doing based on their own beliefs instead of keeping it to themselves and let people make their own decisions as i am sure most people do anyhow

Maybe I shouldn't have said Europe. I believe lasse is in Sweden. I have seen posts from him where he States it's against the law to sell sick fish.

I agree that the decision is up to the hobbyist themselves for certain. Most people are going to do what they do including myself, regardless of what someone else says. I just want to make sure that these fish have the best chance of survival and a long happy life in captivity. Statements or claims made like the one in the top bold paragraph of the OP could be the difference between life and death for a fish unfortunately. I'd hate for an inexperienced hobbyist to read something like that and incur a loss.

 

[4FordFamily]

The point Lasse makes is that the Meds are NOT harmless.

My point is give it a few days before you jump to Meds.

And then when the fish is so badly harmed it stops eating and can no longer be treated, then what? That happens, frequently. I share @HotRocks experience, figuratively and literally.

 

[4FordFamily]

Im in the UK which is still unfortunately part of Europe as we speak! There are sick fish sold here all the time so i dont know where all these strict regulations are? I got back into this hobby after nearly 20 years out and last time i never used to qt,acclimate or anything. This time i have qt everything i have bought,some success and also sadly some failure but i know that out of the dozen or so fish i have bought,every single one of them has something wrong with it with the majority of them having flukes. So i will carry on doing what i am doing as i am sure everyone that has posted here will carry on doing what they believe is the right thing to do. I just think its a bit wrong of some people to try to change what people are doing based on their own beliefs instead of keeping it to themselves and let people make their own decisions as i am sure most people do anyhow

Perhaps better put is to say that we cannot speak to the status or condition of the distribution system in other countries. We live in the US and aren’t nearly as well-versed, and have zero experience across the pond. The point is that it may well be different from what we experience here.

 

[4FordFamily]

...I'd hate for an inexperienced hobbyist to read something like that and incur a loss.

This is my exact thoughts. My biggest concern is for casual readers and new hobbyists. Feeding metro or General Cure seems as harmless as Advil for humans, yet effective at clearing internal parasites so the fish can put on much-needed weight post-shipment and thrive in home aquaria.

 

[WVNed]

LOL
I had 7 bleeding ulcers after taking Advil. Confirmed by gastroscope. If I were a fish I would be dead.

 

[Foothill Corals]

And then when the fish is so badly harmed it stops eating and can no longer be treated, then what? That happens, frequently. I share @HotRocks experience, figuratively and literally.

The reverse argument can also be made. I see alot of people kill otherwise healthy fish medicating in QT. Two schools of thought. Not saying I am right or you are wrong.

 

[EmdeReef]

In the ideal world, a person would take a fecal sample and prepare a slide then ID a parasite(s) and count the number of the properly ID’d parasite(s).

Depending on the ID and the number of parasites counted, one would decide whether to treat and how. For most common intestinal parasites there are established treatment protocols based on the “viral load” - in some cases the recommendation is not to treat if the numbers are low and in fact the fish should be rechecked on a regular basis.

Almost all treatment protocols for ornamental fish have been “borrowed” from fish farms most of which have at least a part-time trained professional perform the tasks above. Virtually none of the farmed fish are meant to live too long and thus monitoring the viral load makes sense over a period of 6-12 months over a representative population sample - we should note that most of those fish taken for examination are in fact killed so the intestinal content could be analyzed.

There are also costs and regulations associated with administering various medications, etc etc.
(I think it’s self-explanatory why the above approach would not work in an average SW tank...)

While there is no scientifically accepted visual identification of diseases there has been a correlation observed between the appearance and shape of feces in fish and for that matter other animals and potential presence of parasites. To put it in overly simplistic terms parasites strip nutrients from food and as a result the fish loses weight and excretes mucus and nutrient stripped feces along with parasites of course. The color tends to be whiteish, also the condition does not tend to improve over time.

Now could the one time white poop be caused by something else? Sure! Over time that becomes less likely. However often times the progression of the disease can be too quick to ignore and then we have to take calculated risks of whether to try treatment or let nature take its course...again, in the ideal world we would all have decent knowledge of microbiology and pathology and have a mini lab on hand and would know how to take samples from a living fish etc.

With respect @Lasse you take your argument way too far, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding.

 

[Lasse]

I don't see how providing a medication, that doesn't harm the fish, is bad by trying to treat them before it's too late.

I've lost a tank full of fish due to one and don't plan to take that gamble again.

Different perspective... you as a person have white stringy poop. Doctor says, well it could be nothing or you could be dead within days. We have a medicine that won't affect you if the poop means nothing, but will clear it up if it is bad.

You going to pass?

The doctors I know (and I know a lot - believe me) would not give an medication based on my poops colour before knowing why is what it is. It means to isolate the real pathogen of the disease or the natural reason. This because their education tell them that it could be hundreds of different pathogens and natural explanations for this

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Tamberav]

LOL
I had 7 bleeding ulcers after taking Advil. Confirmed by gastroscope. If I were a fish I would be dead.

I think he means harmless in general when taken short term to clear up the infection and then stopped. Chronic use is no bueno.

 

[4FordFamily]

The reverse argument can also be made. I see alot of people kill otherwise healthy fish medicating in QT. Two schools of thought. Not saying I am right or you are wrong.

I am not sure how we could prove that's what caused those fish to die? When the preponderance of our fish die in QT, it's generally from disease we didn't treat soon enough, or some freak accident we didn't account for. What I can tell you is to keep your eye on the fish disease forum, you may well change your viewpoint.

I am also not saying you're wrong, only that I disagree. It's perfectly fine to agree to disagree

LOL
I had 7 bleeding ulcers after taking Advil. Confirmed by gastroscope. If I were a fish I would be dead.

If we are being completely truthful, I am guessing this wasn't from taking Advil for 10-14 days of your life. If so, that's really abnormal. Also, that's unfortunate, I am sorry you went through that, I could not imagine!

 

[WVNed]

I think he means harmless in general when taken short term to clear up the infection and then stopped. Chronic use is no bueno.

Took 4 weeks. No chronic use involved

 

[4FordFamily]

The doctors I know (and I know a lot - believe me) would not give an medication based on my poops colour before knowing why is what it is. It means to isolate the real pathogen of the disease or the natural reason. This because their education tell them that it could be hundreds of different pathogens and natural explanations for this

Sincerely Lasse

I am guessing if you had red poop they'd probably treat you with something, ASAP. Your point of identification prior to treatment is well-taken, but fortunately not feasible for most "aquarists" and very time-consuming. It requires a judgment call.

 

[4FordFamily]

Took 4 weeks. No chronic use involved

You took no Ibuprofen or Advil prior to that 4 weeks of use in your life? I have a lot of trouble believing that.

Again though, that's still ridiculous and unfortunate. I am sorry you endured that!

 

[Lasse]

Talking about anecdotal experiences and blame that on me. I have not seen any scientific prove in this thread that only white stringy poops mean 100 % a parasitic infection. And apparently we live in the age when number of hits on Google is the trouth

Sincerely Lasse

 

[4FordFamily]

Talking about anecdotal experiences and blame that on me. I have not seen any scientific prove in this thread that only white stringy poops mean 100 % a parasitic infection. And apparently we live in the age when number of hits on Google is the trouth

Sincerely Lasse

No one is claiming anything is 100%. We are saying that it's quite likely internal parasites. I don't see any proof that metro in the gut causes any harm to the fish for one, but more importantly more common than not, internal parasites are indicated by white, stringy poo, which is described in a myriad of scientific articles and journals as @eatbreakfast has shared.

 

[HotRocks]

Talking about anecdotal experiences and blame that on me. I have not seen any scientific prove in this thread that only white stringy poops mean 100 % a parasitic infection. And apparently we live in the age when number of hits on Google is the trouth

Sincerely Lasse

No one is saying that white stringy poop is 100% parasitic.

You claimed it to be a myth, you claim white poop is not parasites, you must provide evidence to support that claim.

White stringy poop is a symptom of intestinal parasites or worms, if I see that symptom my choice is to treat the fish with metronidazole and/or praziquantel.

Lasse my friend I really do wish you could put your hands on some of these fish orders we receive here... Your view of how and why we do what we do could change.

 

[m0jjen]

Talking about anecdotal experiences and blame that on me. I have not seen any scientific prove in this thread that only white stringy poops mean 100 % a parasitic infection. And apparently we live in the age when number of hits on Google is the trouth

Sincerely Lasse

(pun intended)

 

[Lizfrank1234]

@HotRocks and @4FordFamily,i follow your posts all the time here in the UK and my opinion right or wrong,is that your methods of quarantine and medication etc make more sense to me than the opening statement of this thread. As i said,just my opinion

 

[Tamberav]

Took 4 weeks. No chronic use involved

There are certainly other risk factors and sorry that happened! That sucks! I would say that isn't the norm though.

Regardless Advil is a anti-inflammatory and we are talking about an antibiotic so I don't think the comparison was meant so literally.

In the hospital they give probiotics with antibiotics... I think evidence is mixed but it can't hurt. So I guess feed It with LRS?

 

[Thales]

Your point of identification prior to treatment is well-taken, but fortunately not feasible for most "aquarists" and very time-consuming. It requires a judgment call.

That might point to the real questions that we always circle around - is that judgement call something that we should accept? What level of experience is sufficient to make such a judgement call? Is time consuming and expense a good enough reason not to get better information before guessing and treating?