Best sump design with refugium

[PaPaX6]

What I am thinking is I have two sumps. Considered using one as a fuge only. But how to plumb it in? That's what I am pondering on.

 

[Rcpilot]

All you have to do in that scenario, is set the refugium about 4 inches higher than the sump. Drill a hole - drop in a bulkhead -- glue on a short piece of pipe and drain it back to your sump. Feed it with a tee off your return line seems to be the most common today. I once split my drain line and ran part of it into the skimmer compartment -- and the other part into the refugium.

In the pic below, I literally set the 20g refugium on top of a couple 4x4's I got from the lumber yard. That was high enough to work. Pretty easy, really.

Here it is in action. This was back in 2008.
I was just looking at this pic again and realized, I had an other powerhead in the return section and was pumping water over to an algae scrubber. That's the 5.5g tank to the left of the refugium.
I shouldn't have used treated wood on an aquarium stand. Didn't think about it at the time. I know better now.

 

[Royal_T]

I chose a purchased sump but keep going back and looking at a sump with a display refugium in the front. All the sump research I did kept taking me back to one of Troylee's sumps that I keep bookmarked.

diy sumps (Troylee's DIY Sumps)

 

[PaPaX6]

All you have to do in that scenario, is set the refugium about 4 inches higher than the sump. Drill a hole - drop in a bulkhead -- glue on a short piece of pipe and drain it back to your sump. Feed it with a tee off your return line seems to be the most common today. I once split my drain line and ran part of it into the skimmer compartment -- and the other part into the refugium.

In the pic below, I literally set the 20g refugium on top of a couple 4x4's I got from the lumber yard. That was high enough to work. Pretty easy, really.

Here it is in action. This was back in 2008.
I was just looking at this pic again and realized, I had an other powerhead in the return section and was pumping water over to an algae scrubber. That's the 5.5g tank to the left of the refugium.
I shouldn't have used treated wood on an aquarium stand. Didn't think about it at the time. I know better now.

That gives me some ideas to work with. Thanks for the help.
William

 

[JMetaxas]

Triton recommends high flow through a Refugium, I believe the theory was that ammonia would have a better chance of making it to the fuge with higher flow.

Triton has never quite explained this. It seems many have very successful Triton tanks with lower turnover. With larger tanks, this becomes very difficult.

 

[Fritzhamer]

Triton has never quite explained this. It seems many have very successful Triton tanks with lower turnover. With larger tanks, this becomes very difficult.

I’ve always been skeptical of the need for such high turnover in the sump. I’ve always ran my returns based on the needs of the skimmer, heaters and that ancillary equipment. I leave the efficient in tank pumps to handle circulation.

 

[dugthefish]

A thing to have in mind with a fuge is to try and make sure the complete water volume gets cycled. If you have a fuge with thick macro algae growth and your inlet and outlet are both at the surface the water can just skip over the top leaving the water below still and cold. If it's in a bigger sump I would at least have the start and end baffle be under-over/over-under and not over-over that you sometimes see.

Working on a DIY fuge using a rubbermaid tote, and I never considered this aspect. If a guy was to submerge the fuge supply down towards the bottom, and have the fuge gravity drain back off the top, think he could get away without using baffles?

 

[Mandelstam]

Working on a DIY fuge using a rubbermaid tote, and I never considered this aspect. If a guy was to submerge the fuge supply down towards the bottom, and have the fuge gravity drain back off the top, think he could get away without using baffles?

Sounds like it's a good start at least. You could drop a temp probe inside the fuge once the macro growth starts to get thicker to see if you have any areas where the water stands still. Should show up colder than the normal tank temp as it's not passing by the heater(s). Water gladly channels and finds the path of least resistance.

Another idea is to make a raised false bottom out of egg crate or something and have the water enter the fuge underneath that. Even with heavier macro algae growth that space should be kept open and the incoming water should spread evenly across the bottom before being forced up through the algae.

If you do get channeling and bad circulation in the fuge you could always drop in a small circulation pump to move the water around.

 

[Erica-Renee]

All you have to do in that scenario, is set the refugium about 4 inches higher than the sump. Drill a hole - drop in a bulkhead -- glue on a short piece of pipe and drain it back to your sump. Feed it with a tee off your return line seems to be the most common today. I once split my drain line and ran part of it into the skimmer compartment -- and the other part into the refugium.

In the pic below, I literally set the 20g refugium on top of a couple 4x4's I got from the lumber yard. That was high enough to work. Pretty easy, really.

Where you have that drain going into the fuge needs to be strait down or very little water will flow into the fuge . Also i think you will be better off with a baffle setup either where the water enters the fuge or exits so it flows thru the fuge not just across the top..

But other then that i think its good .

 

[Rcpilot]

Working on a DIY fuge using a rubbermaid tote, and I never considered this aspect. If a guy was to submerge the fuge supply down towards the bottom, and have the fuge gravity drain back off the top, think he could get away without using baffles?

I've done that too. It works fine. Low flow. Lots of dwell time. Inlet and outlet on opposite sides with plenty if rock and macro algae to disperse it across the tank.

 

[Rcpilot]

Where you have that drain going into the fuge needs to be strait down or very little water will flow into the fuge . Also i think you will be better off with a baffle setup either where the water enters the fuge or exits so it flows thru the fuge not just across the top..

But other then that i think its good .

It was not a siphon overflow. Just gravity. It worked fine. There are valves and piping you cannot see in the pic.

It's working in the pic.

 

[horsefarm5]

For me the best design is to have the fuge as a separate tank off the main equipment sump. A bit more options for any upgrades as well as being easier to shield from parts where you don't want any light. But of course it all depends on the larger picture and if you're running Triton for example.

For me the best design is to have the fuge as a separate tank off the main equipment sump. A bit more options for any upgrades as well as being easier to shield from parts where you don't want any light. But of course it all depends on the larger picture and if you're running Triton for example.

I have mine set up that way...90 gal fuge that flows into 100gal sump with skimmer bio reactor carbon reactor and heaters all in that.. the fuge has rock and chaeto

For me the best design is to have the fuge as a separate tank off the main equipment sump. A bit more options for any upgrades as well as being easier to shield from parts where you don't want any light. But of course it all depends on the larger picture and if you're running Triton for example.

 

[dugthefish]

I've done that too. It works fine. Low flow. Lots of dwell time. Inlet and outlet on opposite sides with plenty if rock and macro algae to disperse it across the tank.

Since you seem to know a bit about where I'm trying to go, I'll pick your brain just a bit more. Where is the best place for the fuge to return into the sump? I was thinking back into the main return chamber, but I dont like the idea of random algae getting into my return pump. Thinking about dropping it in right on top of the last set of baffles before the return section....

 

[Erica-Renee]

It was not a siphon overflow. Just gravity. It worked fine. There are valves and piping you cannot see in the pic.

It's working in the pic.

i was just thinking the water would flow more into the other chamber instead of where the valve was.. I had this issue in the past..

 

[Rjramos]

Funny but the originator of the post has disappeared![emoji23] Hopefully, he’ll chime in again!
Erica and Rcpilot you have the best ideas for this set up. Rcpilot your diagram is great, however, the actual set up is outside the footprint of the display by far. I have set up many systems with double sumps, refugium/ pump and skimmer sump. 2 factors that accomplish this better are custom sized sumps and more vertical space beneath the display tank. This allows fitting both sumps in the space below and gravity feeding from display to both sumps(split drain from display). It also allows to place refugium sump higher than pump/skimmer sump and allow it to gravity drain into it. I make all my sumps out of plexiglas and use baffles in both sumps. Here is an example currently running. 120 gal display, 30x15 refugium only 11” deep, and 24x 13x 14 high return pump/ skimmer sump. You can see display drain manifold that drains into both sumps controlled by gate valves, and allowing me to reduce amount of flow to the refugium. The right valve controls refugium incoming and the left valve drains directly onto a pad in the bottom sump. This whole system uses just one external blueline 70, (on the right). Same pump also feeds external skimmer on the left.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

Never heard of someone having a different flow rate in the refugium vs the rest of the sump. For a normal sump 3 to 5x the DT size is the norm. Unless you are trying to run a high flow sump then 10x or higher. There are a ton of different ways to set a refugium up. Some people put extra pumps in the sump to keeps things in suspension.

Mine has different flow rates

 

[Rjramos]

Mine has different flow rates

If you have 10x+ which is you display turnover, going through your refugium as well, it is too much. At least for me, Cheato doesn’t do good.

 

[DirtDiggler2823]

If you have 10x+ which is you display turnover, going through your refugium as well, it is too much. At least for me, Cheato doesn’t do good.

Separate pipe with gate valve just for the refugium. I can control the flow rate of the fuge on it's own.

 

[Rcpilot]

Since you seem to know a bit about where I'm trying to go, I'll pick your brain just a bit more. Where is the best place for the fuge to return into the sump? I was thinking back into the main return chamber, but I dont like the idea of random algae getting into my return pump. Thinking about dropping it in right on top of the last set of baffles before the return section....

You could do that. If you study my picture up close, you'll see the drain from the refugium went into the sump and went under water, then turned back up and opened with a 90 pointing up. There was 1 baffle, held 1 inch off the bottom. That took about 3 inches of space to make room for the pipe go down under the water an inch.
But it was more work and probably unnecessary. I don't see any reason why you couldn't dump it into the baffles before the return section.

 

[Bdroid]

Funny but the originator of the post has disappeared![emoji23] Hopefully, he’ll chime in again!

Sorry just been really busy and I’m still learning so not sure what kind of helpful advice i can provide but this is my current setup...

Basically I’m going to have the refugium in the second chamber and thinking about adding a bio plate between the baffles to the third chamber to prevent any chaeto from going into the return pump area...It was simple and felt like the best for my 40g sump. Still new to this hobby, so may change it up down the line [emoji28]