reefnewbie2
New Member
From what i have heard bioballs are nitrate factory because food get stuck in the bioballs and become nitrate. Cant food get stuck in live rock and become nitrate as well?
bioball vs live rock
- Thread starter reefnewbie2
- Start date
- Tagged users None
dakotasreef
Prestige Worldwide
Anywhere that detrius and organics can become trapped will cause a "nitrate factory". I think with proper maint the bioballs could be fine, but most people will get lazy at some point and then you could have a problem. The thing with live rock, is that you usually have crabs, snails, worms, pods, and fish etc..... that help clean this up. It is still good husbandry to "dust" or clean your live rock and sand of detrius during water changes.
Just my .02
Just my .02
The other difference with LR is that it has SIGNIFICANTLY more surface area per unit volume than bioballs will. The bacteria live on and in every crevice of the rocks. Snails, hermits, and bristleworms can also get to a lot more of the food that will settle into low flow areas of live rock than they could with bioballs.
Yep
Many people have "heard" that bioballs are "bad" and are "Nitrate factories", and I'm glad that you recognize some very apparent flaws in that notion.
Couple ways to avoid detrius build up in bioballs or live rock: filter socks, filter floss, baffles (detrius generally settles pre-baffles) and skimmer. You would keep the bioballs or rubble after one (or more) of the above.
Bioballs got a bad rep due to mostly being used in a wet/dry system, which is also generally frowned upon in a reef system. Wet/Dry systems are one of the most effective means of allowing bacteria to break ammonia ---> nitrite ---> nitrate. For a reef system, they're basically too effective, meaning they're running through the nitrogen cycle faster than animals we keep can utilize nutrients, and faster than the skimmers can remove detrius/waste prior to breaking down (into the above compounds). If mantained properly, wet/dry filters work great in a reef, but no one really wants to put in the maintenance (including me
)... the bioballs have to be "cleaned" every now and then in a bucket of tank water to remove any detrius (or mulm) that has settled; This is also an arguing point against them in a reef in that this process can remove or kill off some microfauna such as pods, which can potentially be true.There's many ways to skin our cat (read: aquarium), pick your means...
beaslbob
2500 Club Member
Yes.
the difference is that live rock is in light and covered with algae which consumes the nitrates generated. Just as a macro algae refugium with bioballs will also have unmeasureable nitrates.
my .02
Bioballs are non porous so only support aerobic bacterias on their surface. Porous live rock is like a tight sponge and can support anaerobic bacteria on its interior surfaces and pores as well as aerobic bacteria on its exterior surface. You need both bacteria for complete nitrification and denitrification. This is a little simplified because you also have anoxic and facultative bacterias too.
Thats exactly how a municipal wastewater treatment plant works too.
Thats exactly how a municipal wastewater treatment plant works too.
Last edited:
wa108666
Community Member
Also Remember, not all LR is created equally. Look for the size to weight ratio and make sure the rock is pourous.
You can have a softball size of dense rock vs the same size of pourous rock and 1000X's more surface area in the pourous stuff.
You want to see massive bubbles when placing the LR under water
You can have a softball size of dense rock vs the same size of pourous rock and 1000X's more surface area in the pourous stuff.
You want to see massive bubbles when placing the LR under water
waxy
unregistered
I could only see bioballs being used for a wet and dry filter. Even at that point there wouldn't be much filtration effects that would gear towards it.
As everyone stated, it will become more of a nitrate factor, due to the fact that there's a large amount of surface area for it all to linger and thrive upon.
Liverock > Bioballs.
Bioballs are a PITA, I remember using it when I first started reefing haha, what a big mistake...
As everyone stated, it will become more of a nitrate factor, due to the fact that there's a large amount of surface area for it all to linger and thrive upon.
Liverock > Bioballs.
Bioballs are a PITA, I remember using it when I first started reefing haha, what a big mistake...
gilmour01
Well-Known Member
Bioballs are used in an aerobic area, where the water is very oxygenated. The Bioballs are not completely submerged in water, but have water "trickling" through them.
Live rock is completely submerged, under water.
Each environment is totally different. The very well oxygenated environment that Bioballs are housed in, is a perfect environment for nitrates.
Live rock is completely submerged, under water.
Each environment is totally different. The very well oxygenated environment that Bioballs are housed in, is a perfect environment for nitrates.
Yep
Many people have "heard" that bioballs are "bad" and are "Nitrate factories", and I'm glad that you recognize some very apparent flaws in that notion.
Couple ways to avoid detrius build up in bioballs or live rock: filter socks, filter floss, baffles (detrius generally settles pre-baffles) and skimmer. You would keep the bioballs or rubble after one (or more) of the above.
Bioballs got a bad rep due to mostly being used in a wet/dry system, which is also generally frowned upon in a reef system. Wet/Dry systems are one of the most effective means of allowing bacteria to break ammonia ---> nitrite ---> nitrate. For a reef system, they're basically too effective, meaning they're running through the nitrogen cycle faster than animals we keep can utilize nutrients, and faster than the skimmers can remove detrius/waste prior to breaking down (into the above compounds). If mantained properly, wet/dry filters work great in a reef, but no one really wants to put in the maintenance (including me
There's many ways to skin our cat (read: aquarium), pick your means...
Funny you talk about bioballs and pods Austin.... I ran a coldwater marine system for a number of years and we had a 6' "bio tower of power". Basically a 16" sewer pipe donated by the city filled with $200 worth of bioballs run wet/dry style. Thing worked amazingly well in combination with the deep sandbed and some macro algae/rock. We took it apart to clean it out after maybe 2 years and it had more pods in it than I have ever seen in my life. Literally we were cleaning them out of the carpets for months. So at least some species of pods can thrive in wet dry systems, assumedly feeding on the accumulated detritus.
Anyway, I actually wonder if anyone is running bioballs with a modern skimmer/DSB/live rock system, would be curious what their results are.
Rukis
unregistered
+1! Live rock is waay more of a natural filter as it contains "live organisms" within the rock that break down nitrites into nitrates, hence it's called "Live Rock", NATURAL Filtration. And snails/inverts will clean the rock's surfaces off. The bio balls hide and breed waste as they are NOT usually cleaned (by you or snails/inverts) and they are more for fish only tanks/ freshwater. The bio balls are more to contain "beneficial bacterias" so that fish wont stress out with water changes. The balls aren't really a filter like rock and they can generate heat! Skip the bioballs and go with more rock!
Rukis, interesting point, do you mean that the bioballs produce heat from the bacteria within? I have been snooping around my tank with a laser-sighted temp gun looking for anything interesting (weird cold/hot pockets, flow problems. endothermic fish or corals or whatever). I am definitely going to check this out on a friend's FOWLR (and FOWBB) tank. But wait, wouldnt the usual wet/dry aspect of bioballs create a large evaporative surface cooling the water down too?
FishyFarr
Active Member
I would like to point out that not just bio balls can become nitrate factories. I use a carbon chamber/skimmer/fuge set up and I would like to say if I don't clean out that carbon it can become a nitrate factory as well. I also have heard the canister filters if not cleaned out can become nitrate factories. Just remember anything that is accumalating detrius can be come a nitrate factory. carbon is great, dirty carbon is very very bad, cloggs the tiny pores in carbon then you get less and less good "cleaning" from the carbon.
smokenax
Community Member
if you replace your bioballs with small size liverock rubble it should be fine,also when you replace it,make sure you remove small portions at a time ,you dont want to replace the whole thing in one shot.
Similar threads
