BRS - what's up with Sicce Syncra ADV pumps?

[rockskimmerflow]

The AC version is as expected 120v but the DC is 24v. The windings I would assume would have to be different to handle the higher amp draw.
This one is a controllable AC pump.
I would be interested in knowing if this pump has a chip in the block as well or built in the controller.
https://reefbuilders.com/2018/05/02/hydor-seltz-d-controllable-pump-pricing/

Yes its 120v at the wall, but what Im suggesting is that its not a different motor block from the SDC pumps, but rather includes an onboard package to drive the pump at a predetermined max setting and allow for simplicity of use for those that have only a need for an efficient return pump sans any user accessible controls.

From what @Brew12 has learned from his sales guy it may very well be feasible cost wise for sicce to do this since they've already invested in the really expensive hardware R/D and production apparatus for their flagship SDC line. I can see why they might offer a simpler plug and play line for customers not into having any extra control options. This would increase production volume and subsequent cost effeciency per unit of their bldc motor blocks. Starting to make a lot of sense to me. And personally, running a service biz myself with upwards of 100 centrifugal pumps in the field, I pass on anything with a power brick or controller 100 percent of the time. Only in-tank wavemakers and lights are allowed to have those in my fleet. Too much at risk for primary life support to have any extra points of failure imo, so I can see the value in this pump for customers who want simplicity. I'll be sticking to my 1262s, iwakis, panworlds, and askoll built pumps for the forseen future. May try out one of these ADVs in a noncritical application for fun though.

 

[ksed]

The chip in itself is another point of failure.
I can’t remember if it was the Askoll 1350 or 1500 had high failure rates because of the chip. That has since been corrected.
I have to agree with Brew though at that point why not just add the controller for variable speed.

 

[Amoo]

I think the easy answer is, because you can add those two wires and a nifty little controller to the exact same pump and charge "X" number of $$$ more for the controllable version while building the exact same pump, same tooling, same assembly up until that final step.

If you look at it through a business lens of limiting cost it does make sense.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I think the easy answer is, because you can add those two wires and a nifty little controller to the exact same pump and charge "X" number of $$$ more for the controllable version while building the exact same pump, same tooling, same assembly up until that final step.

If you look at it through a business lens of limiting cost it does make sense.

Yup exactly. You dob't want to undercut your flagship lines pricepoint just because you could. Same reason eheim uses a different front volute plate to turn a 1262 into the 1260 amd tunze uses molded a plastic restrictor on the 6025 pumps to slow their flow. It would be too expensive to produce more motor block varieties than needed when a simple part can be used to limit performance and allow for a lower tier pricepoint.

Heck even BMW does this by limiting the strength of internals in 2.0 turbo engines so you can't just use software changes to safely get the performance of the higher priced, more powerful trim level with the same engine block etc.

As a business protecting your margins in an efficient manner is paramount. Sicce is likely using the ADV pumps to efficiently increase their margins per unit on the SDC line while being able to still turn a smaller profit on the non user controllable ADVs.

This is of course assuming my postulate of the ADVs being an SDC block with a fixed onboard drive system is true.

 

[TexasTodd]

That works for me. I only needed it at 100%. Outboard boat engines do the same thing too.

I do have a question on the 1260-1262 though, I've heard that before, but doesn't the 1262 use more watts?

 

[rockskimmerflow]

That works for me. I only needed it at 100%. Outboard boat engines do the same thing too.

I do have a question on the 1260-1262 though, I've heard that before, but doesn't the 1262 use more watts?

Yeah the 1262 uses more watts simply because it flows more water without the restriction. If you look at the specs between the 1260 and 1262 you'll see they have the same head pressure max yet diff max flow rates. Its like putting a ball valve on a pump and seeing a wattage decrease since flow drops. Eheim just does this with an integral, yet inexpensive part to create 2 models from the same motor block.

 

[TexasTodd]

Ah, thanks Rock, I didn't know the watts drop if you restrict. Thanks for the edu!

 

[Brew12]

I think the easy answer is, because you can add those two wires and a nifty little controller to the exact same pump and charge "X" number of $$$ more for the controllable version while building the exact same pump, same tooling, same assembly up until that final step.

If you look at it through a business lens of limiting cost it does make sense.

Fantastic insight. I think I let my faith in humanity get a little higher than it should have.

This is of course assuming my postulate of the ADVs being an SDC block with a fixed onboard drive system is true.

I'm not 100% convinced yet, but it does make a lot of sense. From a business perspective, it seems like it would make sense for Sicce to release a 3rd version. One that required a controller such as an Apex or GHL to work. I'm guessing they could market it in price between the SDC and ADV and it would be the highest profit of the 3. I also think there would be a market for it. Something to watch for....

 

[don_chuwish]

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[don_chuwish]

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[ksed]

BRS may not want to get into a manufacturing war.

 

[randyBRS]

Any plans to make this happen? Still interested!

Yep, it's on the list for potential videos. The reality is that these take multiple days to write, shoot and produce so as much as I really wish I could keep up with each idea coming in it's just not a feasible pace. I do plan to get to this in the future, but I can't promise an exact timeline of when that will be.

 

[don_chuwish]

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[bdare]

Are you guys still loving the Syncra punps? I'm putting together a parts list for a new tank and trying to find a good return pump. I've kept tanks for years and always used Eheim for their dependability. Not sure which DC pump to choose (or stay away from). Looking for something quiet and dependable.

 

[Water Dog]

Are you guys still loving the Syncra punps? I'm putting together a parts list for a new tank and trying to find a good return pump. I've kept tanks for years and always used Eheim for their dependability. Not sure which DC pump to choose (or stay away from). Looking for something quiet and dependable.

This thread is actually about Sicce’s new generation of AC pumps, the ADV series. By the numbers, these pumps run quite efficiently, rivaling the energy efficiency of DC pumps. I bought an ADV 5.5 for my 57 gallon tank that I’m working on. I’m not quite up and running as yet. If you’re looking for reliability, you can go wrong with AC pumps from Sicce, Eheim, Tunze or Fluval. Many of the DC options available in the hobby don’t quite have a long enough track record to make a determination on reliability as yet IMO.

The one critique I do have about the ADV pumps are the tiny pointed silicone feet. They don’t really provide a stable base for the pump to sit on. It tends to tip over and move around unless hard plumbed in. I’m gonna source some silicone suction cup feet for my pump.

 

[bdare]

Are the new ADV series controllable? Can you adjust the flow or is it a constant flow? I'm looking for a DC pump which I can use as a return and to feed a manifold for future reactor additions off a manifold.

 

[Water Dog]

Are the new ADV series controllable? Can you adjust the flow or is it a constant flow? I'm looking for a DC pump which I can use as a return and to feed a manifold for future reactor additions off a manifold.

No, it’s an AC pump... not controllable electronically. Only controllable through a gate or ball valve. If your looking for a controllable Sicce, look at the Sicce SDC pumps. It has the same motor blocks as the ADV pumps.

 

[Ocelaris]

I like my AC pumps and my sicce adv pump is great. I've bought 3 sicce pumps and all still work great (I have 2 running on my 250). The adv is easy to clean and the output is better than the last Gen. My DC reef octopus skimmer is DC, and that makes sense if I need to control flow, but for a return, it's on or off.

 

[siggy]

Directional start can be accomplished in 2 ways. The old fashioned way is to have some sort of mechanical stop to bounce the rotor back into the correct direction. You can also do it by using a feedback sensor to to determine rotor position and time closing of a contact so the sine wave is in the correct position in relation to the rotor.

Power will always be directly proportional to the load and isn't really controllable. If you throttle flow using a valve the motor power will go down.


It will hurt efficiency which is why motor manufacturers typically won't do this to help power factor. However, if you were going to be using capacitors for a different function, such as filtering or wave shaping, it would make sense to size them appropriately to help with pf.


I use Sicce Pro's on my system and they are quiet, but they are louder than typical DC pumps of the same size. A great example of wave shaping to reduce noise are the Vortech Quiet Drives. When they came out with the QD's you could upgrade the controller while using the same wet and dry sides. The noise reduction was very impressive with the 2 MP40's I upgraded this way. They went from too noisy for me to enjoy to almost dead silent.

I would think that this would make a great article(Book) that I think needs to be done, I for one have some misconceptions regarding theory and function. Other than the Aquariums, Lights and Flow are the major players, and lights get all attention.

 

[Bulk Reef Supply]

Are you guys still loving the Syncra punps? I'm putting together a parts list for a new tank and trying to find a good return pump. I've kept tanks for years and always used Eheim for their dependability. Not sure which DC pump to choose (or stay away from). Looking for something quiet and dependable.

As far as AC pumps go, our go to is still the Syncra Silent line. That said, if you're looking for a DC controllable pump, the team favorite has become the Varios pumps from Reef Octopus. We sell a bunch of those pumps and very rarely ever see them come back to us with issues. As a bonus, they're also Apex controllable via a 0-10v variable speed port. Assuming you have an open 0-10v port, there is no module needed, just a y cable.