Can fish be itchy?

[Nasabeau]

so, I noticed some odd behavior in my coral beauty angelfish. now, some background, the fish has established a small area under a rock as his home. he sleeps there every night and retreats there a lot if something is off or possibly bothering him. a few days ago, the royal gramma decided he wasn't a fan of the cave he had previously picked out and moved into a rock crevice near (all but inside) the coral beauty's rock. worth mentioning this is also the sleeping spot of my yellow tail blue damsel, who seems to have just picked a new spot since he's much smaller than the gramma. all this to say, part of me thinks this behaviour might be territorial, but I'm vaguely concerned its medical. today and yesterday in his cave, right at the opening to the royal grammas crevice, the CBA appears to be twitching and rubbing up against the rock. it looks almost like he's trying to scratch himself on the rock. I can't really see any marks, lesions or abrasions on the CBA, although there is a spot that might be ever so slightly discoloured, but that has not gotten bigger since I noticed the behaviour. I think it may just be part of his pattern that I'm noticing because I'm looking harder. is it possible for a fish to have an itchy spot? if the fish is itching itself, is this an indication something is wrong? any thoughts here would be appreciated.

 

[homer1475]

Itching or flashing as we call it in the hobby usually means theres something in or on the fish's skin bothering it. This is not normal behavior.

With that said, I do have a couple wrasses that "flash" on the sandbed, but I think thats normal behavior as I believe they are trying to get pods to come to the surface. After they flash the sandbed, they immediately turn around and start munching things in that area.

 

[Nasabeau]

Itching or flashing as we call it in the hobby usually means theres something in or on the fish's skin bothering it. This is not normal behavior.

With that said, I do have a couple wrasses that "flash" on the sandbed, but I think thats normal behavior as I believe they are trying to get pods to come to the surface. After they flash the sandbed, they immediately turn around and start munching things in that area.

The fish is definitely not flashing. I have a lot of experience in fresh water aquariums and would recognize that. this is something different... he's like rubbing up against the rock for like 5-10 seconds, then he'll just go about his merry business. does it about once or twice an hour maybe while I was watching.

 

[borillion]

Not an expert in any sense but I would be concerned it's the start of Ich.

 

[homer1475]

Could just be an injury on the skin thats healing then. Kind of like how a scab itch's before it's fully healed.

I would keep an eye on it though either way.

 

[Nasabeau]

Not an expert in any sense but I would be concerned it's the start of Ich.

If it is something on his skin like ich, how do I even begin to go about diagnosing or treating it without a visible lesion? he is eating normally, none of the fish have any signs of fin rot or white spots. The only thing off is a fish acting a little funny and maybe a very slight discoloration in the pattern. what do I do here? just keep watching? I don't have a QT tank, so if it is something contageous, can I treat the whole tank?

 

[homer1475]

Never treat the entire tank.

First off there is no "reef safe" medication that will treat anything like ich. Whatever you put in the tank will be absorbed by your rocks and will forever leach it back into the water. Most fish medications are quite toxic to corals.

 

[Nasabeau]

Could just be an injury on the skin thats healing then. Kind of like how a scab itch's before it's fully healed.

I would keep an eye on it though either way.

That actually makes a ton of sense, since the CBA did sustain a small injury a week or so ago. I think he got bumped against a rock when the tank got inadvertently jarred, he had a large lesion on his head that went away, its possible he also had a bump on his side that just wasn't as noticeable. I will keep a close eye on him for the next few days.

 

[Nasabeau]

Never treat the entire tank.

First off there is no "reef safe" medication that will treat anything like ich. Whatever you put in the tank will be absorbed by your rocks and will forever leach it back into the water. Most fish medications are quite toxic to corals.

good to know. depending on how long the fish need to be treated I could probably set up a QT tank for a short period.

 

[Nasabeau]

I can borrow an old aquarium from my mother and throw a filter/heater in there for temporary housing, but I am concerned if something like that would be safe. not to mention it wouldn't be a big enough tank for half my fish. I think her biggest aquarium is maybe 30 gallons... it would definitely be small for the tang by itself, let alone the other fish

 

[borillion]

Think if it this way, its a hospital tank and gives it some time to heal up in the worst case? Not sure about having to back and the pecking order though. Also I am uncertain but I recall something about trauma and ich.

good to know. depending on how long the fish need to be treated I could probably set up a QT tank for a short period.

 

[Nasabeau]

Think if it this way, its a hospital tank and gives it some time to heal up in the worst case? Not sure about having to back and the pecking order though. Also I am uncertain but I recall something about trauma and ich.

I'll be honest, I am really skeptical about this being ich, the CBA was the third fish in the tank after the pair of clowns I used to cycle it., he's been in there over a month, none of the other fish have any problems, and his problem is just a quirky new behaviour, not spots or flashing. I will definitely keep it in mind but I feel like it might be a little early to hone in on ich, unless my understanding of marine ich is WAY off...

 

[Nasabeau]

Think if it this way, its a hospital tank and gives it some time to heal up in the worst case? Not sure about having to back and the pecking order though. Also I am uncertain but I recall something about trauma and ich.

$#!& it's ich. I woke up this morning and the tang is covered in white spots..... you called it. what is the best course of action for treating it?

 

[Hydrored]

HIGH - Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Stickies

My Current QT Process Ratios for Dosing Copper Power Uronema - Eradicate or Ignore? Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites! PSA: PRIME safe to use with COPPER POWER Medications to keep on hand Fallow periods: Going Fishless Difficult Fish to QT guide Ich eradication vs. Ich...

www.reef2reef.com

I prefer copper power and pick-up a Hanna copper tester, this will all be in a quarantine tank of course not dosed to the display

 

[Nasabeau]

HIGH - Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Stickies

My Current QT Process Ratios for Dosing Copper Power Uronema - Eradicate or Ignore? Hybrid TTM to treat all parasites! PSA: PRIME safe to use with COPPER POWER Medications to keep on hand Fallow periods: Going Fishless Difficult Fish to QT guide Ich eradication vs. Ich...

www.reef2reef.com

I prefer copper power and pick-up a Hanna copper tester, this will all be in a quarantine tank of course not dosed to the display

How small a quarantine tank can a tomini tang realistically be in? how long will they need to stay in that tank? right now my DT is fish only, and will be for the foreseeable future (probably at minimum the next 6 months) is there a reason I can't just dose the display tank and wait for the copper levels to go back down? do my snails and my hermit crab need to be treated as well? my chances of finding the Nassarius snails are about the same as hitting the powerball

 

[Hydrored]

You do not want to dose copper as it will kill your inverts, the sand and rock will absorb the copper. 20 gallon long will work fine with a couple pieces of PVC fittings for fish to hide

 

[Nasabeau]

You do not want to dose copper as it will kill your inverts, the sand and rock will absorb the copper. 20 gallon long will work fine with a couple pieces of PVC fittings for fish to hide

How long do they need to be in QT? Do I move all the fish, or just the ones with symptoms?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long do they need to be in QT? Do I move all the fish, or just the ones with symptoms?

Just jumping in here, what @Hydrored said is correct regarding the treatment tank. You will likely need to move all of the fish though, and that might pose a problem in a 20 gal., not sure how many fish you have.

To be honest, as I read this thread, in the back of my mind I was thinking flukes, the timeline is right, the lack of spots at first, the fact that the fish is a CB, etc. Right up until the post that you said the fish is covered in spots.

Jay

 

[Nasabeau]

Just jumping in here, what @Hydrored said is correct regarding the treatment tank. You will likely need to move all of the fish though, and that might pose a problem in a 20 gal., not sure how many fish you have.

To be honest, as I read this thread, in the back of my mind I was thinking flukes, the timeline is right, the lack of spots at first, the fact that the fish is a CB, etc. Right up until the post that you said the fish is covered in spots.

Jay

I have 2 clowns a royal gramma a yellow tail damsel, a coral beauty angel and a Tomini tang. I’m honestly at the point where I may just move the snails and dose the main tank. Yeah, I won’t be able to add corals for a long time, but I don’t think the bio load would be feasible in a 20 gallon tank with a glass bottom that would be uncycled... I’m not really seeing another option.

Edit: worth mentioning, the CB is not covered in spots, the tomini is. the CB just has one slightly discoloured spot, but given the tang has CLASSIC ich look and the CB having something ich-like... I'm going to assume Occam's razor is applicable

 

[Nasabeau]

The problem is the thread thats been sent says my DT would need to be fishless for upwards of 2 months. There is no way all those fish get along in anything smaller than they're currently in that long, and no way they survive without me basically setting up a whole second system with live rock and sand and all that, basically starting over from scratch in a tank the same size, maybe SLIGHTLY smaller... I don't know if QTing all the fish is something I can realistically do...