Can Phosphates and Nitrates be too low?

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Hi everyone my first post is going to be a question about phosphates and nitrates. From what I have read on forums phosphates and nitrates should be kept very low but how low is too low? I have also read that if your phosphates are too low sps tend to have a bad reaction but if that were true wouldnt that defeat the purpose ULNS tanks? I am very confused on where I should maintain these parameters, any thoughts?

 

[Krzydmnd]

Your corals do need some level of both. Here is a great video on explaining the balance between the two.

 

[mcarroll]

Is nutrient control an effective method of treating algae in a reef?

A lot gets explained in that thread.

 

[Primetastic]

So I have a question regarding ultra low phosphate. I have been attempting to raise my phosphates as I have been noticing paling of my sps. Hanna phosphate checker has read 0.00 ppm for the last two months. I have been dosing neo phosphate (britewell) at 2ml per week during that time.
I recently purchased the Hanna ULR that measures in ppb. Results...zero.
Any ideas on dosing as I am technically adding enough to my 45 gallon system to boost their 0.08ppm. Thanks

 

[Gareth elliott]

So I have a question regarding ultra low phosphate. I have been attempting to raise my phosphates as I have been noticing paling of my sps. Hanna phosphate checker has read 0.00 ppm for the last two months. I have been dosing neo phosphate (britewell) at 2ml per week during that time.
I recently purchased the Hanna ULR that measures in ppb. Results...zero.
Any ideas on dosing as I am technically adding enough to my 45 gallon system to boost their 0.08ppm. Thanks

I think only dosing 2ml a week might be insufficient.

Try something along these lines.

Day 1 (2ml of phospahte)
Day 2 test, if less than goal, dose again.
Repeat till you have figured out how much phosphate your tank uses each day.

If you dont have an algae issue might be easier to feed more instead of dosing daily imo.

 

[Primetastic]

Appreciate the feedback and I think that is a reasonable/fantastic strategy. I’ll let you know how it goes. I tested 2 hours after a 2ml dose tonight and got 16 Ppb phosphorus (which is a massive upswing from 0 ppb two hours ago. I’ll see what it tests tomorrow night same time.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Appreciate the feedback and I think that is a reasonable/fantastic strategy. I’ll let you know how it goes. I tested 2 hours after a 2ml dose tonight and got 16 Ppb phosphorus (which is a massive upswing from 0 ppb two hours ago. I’ll see what it tests tomorrow night same time.

Keep an eye on your nitrate, alkalinity and calcium too, maybe weekly, if the tank was phosphate limited, and growth increases these will fall too.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

Appreciate the feedback and I think that is a reasonable/fantastic strategy. I’ll let you know how it goes. I tested 2 hours after a 2ml dose tonight and got 16 Ppb phosphorus (which is a massive upswing from 0 ppb two hours ago. I’ll see what it tests tomorrow night same time.

In my opinion I don’t think you should dose phosphate, it is just temporarily solving a bigger problem which is your phosphate will not rise. The problem is there will be too many swings one minute its 0 right after you dose its high, then it goes back down, etc. im assuming you have few fish right? Try adding some more live stock if you don’t have much or up the feeding. I would not recommend feeding dry foods though as it is harder to maintain the redfeild ratio that way. Try frozen foods such as mysis, brine, or lrs foods

 

[Primetastic]

My current fish livestock includes a six line wrasse and lawnmower blenny. 45 gallon tank. Thinking about adding a pair of purple firefish and maybe a small tang. But I’m open to other suggestions. Definitely could benefit from some more feeding I think, I’m tired of the nitrate and phosphate dosing. I used no pox for a year and even though I stopped dosing 5 months ago, I still haven’t been able to get my nitrate and phosphate to keep above 0.00 on their own without dosing. Adding some more fish is probably a good start.

 

[Phelipe's Ocean]

My current fish livestock includes a six line wrasse and lawnmower blenny. 45 gallon tank. Thinking about adding a pair of purple firefish and maybe a small tang. But I’m open to other suggestions. Definitely could benefit from some more feeding I think, I’m tired of the nitrate and phosphate dosing. I used no pox for a year and even though I stopped dosing 5 months ago, I still haven’t been able to get my nitrate and phosphate to keep above 0.00 on their own without dosing. Adding some more fish is probably a good start.

Ah yes your stock lost is very small[emoji16] I have a similar size tank 30 cube its on the over stocked side of things but my fish are doing extremly well i feed a varied frozen diet throughout the day. I have 5 baby anthias, a shrimp pair, and a captive bred springers dotty back pair. keeps my N and P levels perfect. I will be upgrading in a month or so hopefully add some “dirty” fish like tangs

 

[mcarroll]

@Primetastic dosing once a week doesn't work any better for nutrients than it does alkalinity.

If you wanted to pursure dosing nutrients as a short term fix (good plan), then you have to figure out your daily dose and keep doing that. Just like with alk that means a fair amount of testing for a few days while you get the rate dialed in.

There's nothing wrong with dosing, and after you get started, it's no more complicated than dosing alk or ca.

However, if you think you're underfeeding, then address that as well – either you'll see your need for dosing disappear in testing, or you won't, but you'll see the effect for sure if there is one. Don't overfeed, however....that's a way to end up with cyano issues.

I would go back to dosing since that'll relieve your corals immediately, but start feeding more too...just a little more. And keep an eye on NO3 and PO4 with testing. In the long run, steady feeding habits will win.

 

[Primetastic]

Dosed 2ml neo phosphate last night and tested a couple hours later and got 16 ppb. Tested around same time tonight and got 1 ppb. So my tank is apparently consuming 15 ppb po4 daily. I have started increasing my reef roids dosage and feeding the fish a little more. I added two purple firefish as well. I am going to keep a close eye on no3 and po4 from here on until I see some stability.

 

[PatW]

I have a light fish load. My export systems will keep my nitrates at 0 or below .25 ppm and my phosphates below 1 ppb. I test using Red Sea Pro for nitrates and Hanna ULR for phosphates. I try to keep nitrates between 1 and 4 ppm and phosphates between 15 and 30 ppb. My corals will rapidly decline if the nutrient levels fall too far.

Long range, I am working at increasing my fish load. It is a gradual process. Right now, I have a peacable kingdom and I don’t want to produce chaos.

 

[mcarroll]

My export systems

What are you using here?

 

[PatW]

I have chaeto in my sump and a skimmer.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In my opinion I don’t think you should dose phosphate, it is just temporarily solving a bigger problem which is your phosphate will not rise. The problem is there will be too many swings one minute its 0 right after you dose its high, then it goes back down, etc. im assuming you have few fish right? Try adding some more live stock if you don’t have much or up the feeding. I would not recommend feeding dry foods though as it is harder to maintain the redfeild ratio that way. Try frozen foods such as mysis, brine, or lrs foods

Have you any actual evidence that dosing phosphate leads to undesirable consequences? Lots of people do it with apparent positive effects.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Dosed 2ml neo phosphate last night and tested a couple hours later and got 16 ppb. Tested around same time tonight and got 1 ppb. So my tank is apparently consuming 15 ppb po4 daily. I have started increasing my reef roids dosage and feeding the fish a little more. I added two purple firefish as well. I am going to keep a close eye on no3 and po4 from here on until I see some stability.

Most of your dose may be binding to rock and sand. That's the expected result, and one reefer showed in a test tank on raw dead rock that he needed to dose more than 50 ppm before 0.16 ppm remained in solution.

 

[mcarroll]

I have chaeto in my sump and a skimmer.

Throttle back or even disable the chaeto so there isn't so much competition for basic nutrients.

With that one change you might not have to try at all to keep nutrients in a better, safer range.

 

[8675309TT]

So I have a question regarding ultra low phosphate. I have been attempting to raise my phosphates as I have been noticing paling of my sps. Hanna phosphate checker has read 0.00 ppm for the last two months. I have been dosing neo phosphate (britewell) at 2ml per week during that time.
I recently purchased the Hanna ULR that measures in ppb. Results...zero.
Any ideas on dosing as I am technically adding enough to my 45 gallon system to boost their 0.08ppm. Thanks

Is your filter media stripping it out? PhosGuard?