chocolate tang and powder blue white ich spots come and go.

[Colin Gilboy]

so for the past 17-days i’ve been treating my tank with the poly lab medic, my chocolate tang and powder blue both have the ich looking spots, but they come and go. I have heard it is a stress thing, but they also stay for long periods of time. its on their fins, body, face and it’s there and gone. within the 17 days of treatment, i haven’t really seen them get better. i’ve been feeding PE, flakes, pellets, seaweed, everything plus more for a good diet. any help/advice?
High Range Ph 8.1
Ammonia 0
salinity 1.022
nitrate and nitrite 0

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

What you are probably witnessing is the life cycle of the parasite. It will fall off the fish to encyst in the sand, rock, etc before hatching to become free swimming and back onto the fish.

 

[jsvand5]

What you are using is worthless for killing ich.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

so for the past 17-days i’ve been treating my tank with the poly lab medic, my chocolate tang and powder blue both have the ich looking spots, but they come and go. I have heard it is a stress thing, but they also stay for long periods of time. its on their fins, body, face and it’s there and gone. within the 17 days of treatment, i haven’t really seen them get better. i’ve been feeding PE, flakes, pellets, seaweed, everything plus more for a good diet. any help/advice?
High Range Ph 8.1
Ammonia 0
salinity 1.022
nitrate and nitrite 0

You will need to place the fish into QT and treat with copper for 30 days and leave your tank fallow for 76 days in order to eradicate ich (asssuming that’s what it is).

 

[Pbh-reef]

Hi Colin - I'm sorry you're going through this. First off can a #mods move this to the disease forum where you will get the best help?

Second, let me try to help explain what's happening and what you can do. As the above posters have said, the life cycle of ich means that sometimes the fish will have fewer white spots and then more will come back. Tangs like the powder blue don't often survive in a tank with ich in it long term, because they don't have thick slime coats that help some fish (like wrasses and gobies) live with ich long term. Ich infects a fish's skin and fins but also its gills, where it can suffocate fish to their death

The medicine you are using is not a cure for ich, it may help manage the disease sometimes, but it won't cure it. It sounds like it isn't working in your case, which is not a surprise or your fault. If you could add a UV sterilizer to your tank, that may help manage the ich. But again tangs, especially the powder blue, often die when ich is in the tank.

There are 4 main ways to totally eradicate ich, each has advantages and disadvantages. They are: Hyposalinity, Chloroquine, Copper or Tank Transfer Method.

With two tangs my gut instinct is that the easiest treatment for you will be copper in a separate quarantine tank. If that isn't possible and if you don't have any inverts like corals, snails, shrimps, etc, you could try hypo salinity in your main tank. Some studies suggest that some ich can survive hypo, and hypo can be hard to implement unless you have an automatic water top off.

I would read these articles/the first posts in these threads in this order:

1. About ich: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

2. Basic article on quarantine: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine.232/

3. Here is a good thread (focus on the first post) on how to quarantine fish that talks about using copper. It is the most up-to-date method used by someone on R2R who has a lot of experience: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

If you're interested in using hypo or the tank transfer method to cure ich then read these:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

 

[Pbh-reef]

also can you post pics of the fish? In case it isn't ich it will be good for people with experience to look at the pics and help diagnose.

 

[sandswhitson]

If it is ICH then the tank transfer method works excellent.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hi Colin - I'm sorry you're going through this. First off can a #mods move this to the disease forum where you will get the best help?

Second, let me try to help explain what's happening and what you can do. As the above posters have said, the life cycle of ich means that sometimes the fish will have fewer white spots and then more will come back. Tangs like the powder blue don't often survive in a tank with ich in it long term, because they don't have thick slime coats that help some fish (like wrasses and gobies) live with ich long term. Ich infects a fish's skin and fins but also its gills, where it can suffocate fish to their death

The medicine you are using is not a cure for ich, it may help manage the disease sometimes, but it won't cure it. It sounds like it isn't working in your case, which is not a surprise or your fault. If you could add a UV sterilizer to your tank, that may help manage the ich. But again tangs, especially the powder blue, often die when ich is in the tank.

There are 4 main ways to totally eradicate ich, each has advantages and disadvantages. They are: Hyposalinity, Chloroquine, Copper or Tank Transfer Method.

With two tangs my gut instinct is that the easiest treatment for you will be copper in a separate quarantine tank. If that isn't possible and if you don't have any inverts like corals, snails, shrimps, etc, you could try hypo salinity in your main tank. Some studies suggest that some ich can survive hypo, and hypo can be hard to implement unless you have an automatic water top off.

I would read these articles/the first posts in these threads in this order:

1. About ich: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

2. Basic article on quarantine: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/how-to-quarantine.232/

3. Here is a good thread (focus on the first post) on how to quarantine fish that talks about using copper. It is the most up-to-date method used by someone on R2R who has a lot of experience: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/

If you're interested in using hypo or the tank transfer method to cure ich then read these:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hyposalinity.247596/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

I have nothing to add to this except that with powder blues there’s almost a zero percent chance of keeping them more than 6 months without proper quarantine and treatment of all fish in the tank. Run the tank fallow for 76 days post-treatment.

 

[Colin Gilboy]

also can you post pics of the fish? In case it isn't ich it will be good for people with experience to look at the pics and help diagnose.

thank you all so much for your help. i’ve had the powder blue for a year n a half, he seems to have small white spots and black spots any ideas, here’s photos.

 

[Colin Gilboy]

thank you all so much for your help. i’ve had the powder blue for a year n a half, he seems to have small white spots and black spots any ideas, here’s photos.
i read up and found its a “black ich” and its tube worms, would cupramine help with both of the problems. I am moving them to my QT tank.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

so for the past 17-days i’ve been treating my tank with the poly lab medic, my chocolate tang and powder blue both have the ich looking spots, but they come and go. I have heard it is a stress thing, but they also stay for long periods of time. its on their fins, body, face and it’s there and gone. within the 17 days of treatment, i haven’t really seen them get better. i’ve been feeding PE, flakes, pellets, seaweed, everything plus more for a good diet. any help/advice?
High Range Ph 8.1
Ammonia 0
salinity 1.022
nitrate and nitrite 0

I've successfully used the Polyp Lab Medic to treat ich in my tank when it was introduced with...wait for it....chaetomorpha, of all things. Make sure you're following the directions exactly, including dosage and timing. After treatment, I haven't seen any signs of ich since then, and that was about two years ago.

Also, I can't tell from the pics, but that doesn't exactly look like ich to me. Can you get a high resolution pic or one in better lighting?

 

[Colin Gilboy]

I've successfully used the Polyp Lab Medic to treat ich in my tank when it was introduced with...wait for it....chaetomorpha, of all things. Make sure you're following the directions exactly, including dosage and timing. After treatment, I haven't seen any signs of ich since then, and that was about two years ago.

Also, I can't tell from the pics, but that doesn't exactly look like ich to me. Can you get a high resolution pic or one in better lighting?

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

I presume you've removed the activated carbon?

Have you tried tripling up the dosage?

 

[Colin Gilboy]

I presume you've removed the activated carbon?

Have you tried tripling up the dosage?

yes i’m triple dosing and took carbon out

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

So, you should be dosing three scoops twice per day for your system volume (I rounded up to 100 gallons).

My concern is that your PBT kind of looks like it has a velvet infection, but I'm not sure from the pictures. Medic is supposed to be able to treat velvet, but with velvet being as aggressive as it is, the only treatment I would trust is copper.

 

[Pbh-reef]

@HotRocks @4FordFamily @Humblefish @melypr1985 @Big G

Can someone weigh in on if this is velvet or ich and on using polyp lab medic at higher than recommended dosages? I would be worried about it harming the bacterial biofilter and causing an ammonia spike? @Colin Gilboy can you get a seachem
Ammonia badge to help you see if ammonia rises? I would also be worried that this
Medicine doesn’t have the tried and true success of copper but I understand that’s a risk you may be willing to take to not have to get a hospital tank.

I don’t see any black spots in the photos but since you mentioned the fish having them check out:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-ich-turbellarians.259912/

 

[Pbh-reef]

Also @Colin Gilboy how long have you been at 3x dosage of polyp lab medic? if you are already at 3x dosage for 10+ days and it hasn’t worked then it may not be effective in your case? Someone with more experience than I can weigh in here.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

Here are the directions from Polyp Lab:

For in tank treatment: Use one level scoop of Medic for every 190L (50 Gallons) of your system volume twice per day For serious problems use (3) level scoop for every 190L (50 Gallons) of your system volume. Dose once in the morning, and once in the evening. Continue to dose for 10 days up to a maximum of 20 days.

Note: Ozone and carbon must not be used during the treatment. Protein skimmers can be run as as normal. UV filter can be used one hour after dosing. The problem may seem to disappear when white specks are no longer visible on the fish. This is merely part of the natural cycle of the parasite and you must continue dosing the product for the minimum entire course (10 days) to be maximally effective. After treatment is complete, run granular activated carbon for 2 or 3 days.

I had no issues with corals, ammonia, or any effects on the system other than kicking the ich. Others have reported issues with corals, etc., but I believe they had more than one thing going on at a time. If you can confirm velvet, you need to move ASAP to get fish into copper. Usually, velvet can kill within a few days, so maybe you've been lucky with the medication holding down impacts on your fish.

 

[AllSignsPointToFish]

And, I made a mistake with my math above. You should be dosing six scoops twice per day for a triple dose. Apologies for the math error.

 

[4FordFamily]

I don’t use polylab I personally believe it’s just a management tool it won’t eradicate ich or velvet.

I can’t tell from the photos on my phone but on a PBT it almost doesn’t matter after a few spots don’t clear up ich or velvet won’t be manageable for it in either event, given it’s an acanthurus tang, especially a PBT. Copper or CP after a freshwater dip and perhaps even a methelyn blue bath would be your best course of action.