Copperband Butterfly Sick?

[Treefer32]

So, a few things, I've recently made my second batch of homemade food. I had made a batch last year that I fed all my fish for the last 9 months. They've all been phenomenal. I mix in selcon, Max aminos, a little bit of reef energy ab+ aminos for corals, nori sheets, Shrimp, Mahi ahi tuna, and scallops. All raw and frozen. I made a new batch 2-3 weeks ago. My Copperband has always loved my home made food, he's the first one eating out of my hand for the past year. It didn't matter how aggressive any fish were, he was eating out of my hand. Even with the new food for the last 3 weeks he would always be the first one eating out of my hand. This food seemed to be his favorite, he ate it more vigorously than the previous food. My three tangs and all the other fish just love it and are healthy.

Well, the copperband has been in my tank for a year now, almost to the day. Yesterday I fed him twice and he ate aggressively both times. Today, I fed twice and he wouldn't eat at all. Showed no interest in food and I swear he even shook his beak at me saying no. I'm not feeling like it.

I know copperbands have high metabolisms and need to graze and eat often to stay healthy. He just hangs out in the corner with my clown fish. They keep each other company, but he won't leave the corner, he won't hunt, he won't go after food.

So, two questions, one I just put in two new Gyres FX 350s in my tank about 4-5 days ago... Nearly doubling my flow in my 350 gallon system. I don't know if increased flow or disturbance of the rocks and sand would disrupt him??

Secondly, I noticed a bite size chunk of my scoly's flesh missing? Is it possible the copperband is full on eating corals and not hungry for frozen anymore?

I don't see anything else wrong with him. Attaching a few closeups of him, he likes swimming up to me. Very friendly fish! I also probably overdosed (1.5 times what I should do ) when finishing off a bottle of Reefer Energy AB+ aminos last night. I don't know if that would affect fish? My other fish are all acting normal. The only difference I noticed is my PH low today. overnight it dropped to 7.9 and a high of 8.1. When the lowest before today was around 8.08 and it would hit 8.24 on average. Not sure why that would matter to a copperband though? I'm just noticing in one of the images along one of his black stripes a slight cut possibly? I'm not sure if that's a blemish or an injury or results of a parasite? I was dismissing it as just a strange blemish but I could be wrong. . . It's most visible in the 4th closeup pic.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[sp1187]

no idea, but gorgeous fish.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You said it shook its head. It tells me there may be flukes in it or within tank. Are you able to catch/net it and give it a 3-4 minutes freshwater bath to see if what looks like sesame seeds falls off of it?

 

[Treefer32]

no idea, but gorgeous fish.

I know, I love him, he's by far my favorite. He's been such an awesome personality.

 

[Treefer32]

You said it shook its head. It tells me there may be flukes in it or within tank. Are you able to catch/net it and give it a 3-4 minutes freshwater bath to see if what looks like sesame seeds falls off of it?

I probably can this weekend. He'd practically swim into the net for me. Wouldn't that be extremely stressful?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I probably can this weekend. He'd practically swim into the net for me. Wouldn't that be extremely stressful?

Not really. It will get antsy after 3 mins or so. Assure water temp is same as tank temp

 

[Treefer32]

Not really. It will get antsy after 3 mins or so. Assure water temp is same as tank temp

If it's not eating by this weekend I will give this a try. Of 3 days of not eating he'll be dyeing and have lost his appetite to start eating again.

 

[sp1187]

I know, I love him, he's by far my favorite. He's been such an awesome personality.

mine died from an unfortunate accident. I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger when the asking price is now $80 for a $35 fish.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Mine is an eating machine.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If it's not eating by this weekend I will give this a try. Of 3 days of not eating he'll be dyeing and have lost his appetite to start eating again.

If it is flukes, do not prolong the wait

 

[Treefer32]

Mine is an eating machine.

Exactly, why I think something is wrong. I can't get mine to stop eating the frozen food. I fed twice 2-3 hours a part and wasn't hungry either time. First time in a year he's done that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What @vetteguy53081 said struck a chord with me - in each picture, the CB has what seems to be a cloudy center to its eye. This can be Neobenedenia flukes. trouble is, where could they have come from? have you added any animals to the tank in the past 4 to 6 weeks?
jay

 

[Treefer32]

What @vetteguy53081 said struck a chord with me - in each picture, the CB has what seems to be a cloudy center to its eye. This can be Neobenedenia flukes. trouble is, where could they have come from? have you added any animals to the tank in the past 4 to 6 weeks?
jay

I added a Scoly on 11/17. And 3-4 weeks before that I added some corals from a friend's tank. I didn't dip them, I never keep the water, not saying that helps. The person I buy my corals from doesn't have fish, just propogates his own corals. This Scoly was one he had had for a year, and the acros I got were all propogated acros he' grows himself.

I usually feel pretty safe ordering from him. Can flukes live in the sand bed? Would additional powerheads have pulled them into the water column or something like that?

Why would only on the copperband have them?

 

[Treefer32]

I have a Bellas angel and Lamerack's angel as well, both are fine. and a Pyramid butterflyfish that's also good.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a Bellas angel and Lamerack's angel as well, both are fine. and a Pyramid butterflyfish that's also good.

That is a key clue - Genicanthus angels and Pyramid butterflyfish are common species to see Neobenedenia on - so if those fish are fine with no issues, then I would start to doubt the diagnosis to some degree. Still, copperbands are right up there as to being infected by Neo. Can you confirm the issue about the single cloudy area on its eyes? They show clearly in the photo, but perhaps that is just an artifact of the picture or lighting?

Neobenedenia lay eggs with sticky tendrils. The eggs can take up to a month to hatch, one egg can cause an infection, and they are very easily carried from one tank to another on coral, water and tank tools.

Jay

 

[Treefer32]

That is a key clue - Genicanthus angels and Pyramid butterflyfish are common species to see Neobenedenia on - so if those fish are fine with no issues, then I would start to doubt the diagnosis to some degree. Still, copperbands are right up there as to being infected by Neo. Can you confirm the issue about the single cloudy area on its eyes? They show clearly in the photo, but perhaps that is just an artifact of the picture or lighting?

Neobenedenia lay eggs with sticky tendrils. The eggs can take up to a month to hatch, one egg can cause an infection, and they are very easily carried from one tank to another on coral, water and tank tools.

Jay

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on his eyes. I think there's a pun in there somewhere, not sure though. I also remembered that Wednesday when I feed frozen food I hold it in the water column specifically for the copperband. Some slipped out of my hand and I reached to grab it and he was coming right at me, I ended up smacking his beak a little with my hand. I didn't think anything of it. But, I dont' know if fish feel pain, maybe he's just sore a day later? ha!

I turned the furnace room light on this morning to check out the CBB. I caught him hunting... He had his beak in between two rocks and was munching. I've also noticed an increase in amphipods since shutting my skimmer down almost a month a code. Found a huge one (almost looked like a giant mosquito. Close to an inch long). So, maybe the CBB was still hurting from me smacking him in the face, or he's getting his fill from an abundance of pods....

I'll monitor his eyes and see if I can get more clear pictures of them. Its hard for me to tell. When he faces me, the CBB has some type of eye protector that's forward facing. It makes the eyes look cloudy. Then from the side they look normal. I almost call them his eye lids. But, they're stationary. I assumed it was some type of natural eye protection. When looking at him straight on it looks like there's whites over his eyes. From the side though they appear normal to me. So, I'll monitor. He could have been hurt or discovered a new food source, or both, or has flukes.

Can fish live with flukes or do they eventually slowly keep breading inside the fish until it dies? I know I have ich occasionally, but, most of the time they go away and don't come back until there's a stressor. My last outbreak was 1 fish getting two or three white bumps and they fell off and never returned on that fish. That was on a Canary blenny.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks, I'll keep an eye on his eyes. I think there's a pun in there somewhere, not sure though. I also remembered that Wednesday when I feed frozen food I hold it in the water column specifically for the copperband. Some slipped out of my hand and I reached to grab it and he was coming right at me, I ended up smacking his beak a little with my hand. I didn't think anything of it. But, I dont' know if fish feel pain, maybe he's just sore a day later? ha!

I turned the furnace room light on this morning to check out the CBB. I caught him hunting... He had his beak in between two rocks and was munching. I've also noticed an increase in amphipods since shutting my skimmer down almost a month a code. Found a huge one (almost looked like a giant mosquito. Close to an inch long). So, maybe the CBB was still hurting from me smacking him in the face, or he's getting his fill from an abundance of pods....

I'll monitor his eyes and see if I can get more clear pictures of them. Its hard for me to tell. When he faces me, the CBB has some type of eye protector that's forward facing. It makes the eyes look cloudy. Then from the side they look normal. I almost call them his eye lids. But, they're stationary. I assumed it was some type of natural eye protection. When looking at him straight on it looks like there's whites over his eyes. From the side though they appear normal to me. So, I'll monitor. He could have been hurt or discovered a new food source, or both, or has flukes.

Can fish live with flukes or do they eventually slowly keep breading inside the fish until it dies? I know I have ich occasionally, but, most of the time they go away and don't come back until there's a stressor. My last outbreak was 1 fish getting two or three white bumps and they fell off and never returned on that fish. That was on a Canary blenny.

Fish can live with chronic fluke infestations, but usually, in captivity, the population often grows and then becomes an acute infection.
Jay

 

[Treefer32]

Fish can live with chronic fluke infestations, but usually, in captivity, the population often grows and then becomes an acute infection.
Jay

Thanks Jay, I'll do more research and monitor. Probably work on getting a QT setup to monitor incoming fish and dip corals. I've seen an uptick on diseases in general. A fellow reefer had a massive velvet outbreak from a fish that he QT'd for two weeks. It was fine and so he added it to the display and everyone was sick the next day. He got everything out and QT'd and treated immediately. There seems to be more and more stories like that that don't turn out so well.

 

[Treefer32]

Thanks Jay, I'll do more research and monitor. Probably work on getting a QT setup to monitor incoming fish and dip corals. I've seen an uptick on diseases in general. A fellow reefer had a massive velvet outbreak from a fish that he QT'd for two weeks. It was fine and so he added it to the display and everyone was sick the next day. He got everything out and QT'd and treated immediately. There seems to be more and more stories like that that don't turn out so well.

So, I don't know what

That is a key clue - Genicanthus angels and Pyramid butterflyfish are common species to see Neobenedenia on - so if those fish are fine with no issues, then I would start to doubt the diagnosis to some degree. Still, copperbands are right up there as to being infected by Neo. Can you confirm the issue about the single cloudy area on its eyes? They show clearly in the photo, but perhaps that is just an artifact of the picture or lighting?

Neobenedenia lay eggs with sticky tendrils. The eggs can take up to a month to hatch, one egg can cause an infection, and they are very easily carried from one tank to another on coral, water and tank tools.

Jay

Jay, thank you for your help thus far! I already see improvements overnight. So, I don't know for sure what was / is wrong. the CBB maybe was mad at me for smacking him when I lost his food. I don't know. But today he followed my finger around the tank again. Which he wanted nothing to do with me yesterday. And I fed this morning (way earlier than his normal meals) and skittishly he came up and ate. At first just took a couple bites then ate aggressively nearly biting the tale off other fish trying to get to the food. And ate just fine out of my hands again. The center of his eyes doo look a little white. I don't remember what they should look like though. So, it's hard for me to say they look different than they did before. I don't know if he just didn't feel well, if alkalinity got a little too high, if ph dropped lower than normal, or too many aminos in his food. I don't know. He's also out swimming around today against the current and swimming back and forth the full length of the tank, which he didn't do at all yesterday.

I think I'm going to continue to monitor his eating and swim habits.

It could still be flukes, maybe they hatched yesterday and now he's feeling better for a bit until the next batch hatches? This is the first time in a year he's done this. And it's 4 weeks to the day that I've added anything to the tank beyond additives (amino acids and reef roids). Water changes a couple times a week.

 

[Treefer32]

I'm wondering if I discovered the problem today... would a high salinity cause CBBs to be the first fish to react negatively? Salinity hit 1.027 / 36 ppt accoridng to my 6 year old refrac. I've calibrated it a few times with calibration fluid set at 35 ppt. So, I have no reason to believe it's off, but it's the highest I've ever had salinity in 350 gallons of water. I'm dropping it slowly today mixing in higher concentrations of RODI water.

Everything else seemed fine:

Phosphates consistently running between .12 - .16

Calcium at 440-480
MG at 1440 - 1480
Alk at 9.9
PH at 8.08.

Temp staying stable between 76 and 78. I cleaned my temp probes and ph probes this week, didn't see any huge changes in anything. I also cleaned my cannister filter and replaced the purigen bags with 500 ml rinsed carbon. Just in case there's something I can't figure out in the water, and well, my water is always yellow anyways from the ATS.

Here's to hoping everything generally improves.