Corals to be banned and it will be illigal to own them.

[AHDOnline]

They seem to be cracking down on cases similar to richards some of these things happened years ago and there is a major debate if it was actual intended illegal activity or something else.

There have been I think three convictions this year alone for illegal activity with coral and fish

 

[NeveSSL]

Interesting.

Brandon

 

[shred5]

They seem to be cracking down on cases similar to richards some of these things happened years ago and there is a major debate if it was actual intended illegal activity or something else.

There have been I think three convictions this year alone for illegal activity with coral and fish

There actually has been a bill in the works for a while now where corals farmers and I believe anyone who sells them would have to have special permits and be registered. I dont know what ever happened to it. I believe it was supported by MAC too...

Where is mac on this issue also?

 

[Nano sapiens]

But eventually every coral will be on that list now they discovered they can hurt the hobby this way.

This one is too late to stop but they will resume to add more corals too the list, it is already in there that they are going to add more..
By the way they can vote to take stuff off and that is where we can turn this around.

To have something removed from the list I'd imagine that you'd need a scientific, peer reviewed study (or studies) showing that the animal is not endangered. I foresee great difficulties with this.

My take is that if a coral is truly endangered, then collection must be controlled, at the very least, and banned in the most dire cases. However, captive cultivation of those species already in the hobby should not be negatively impacted, but rather, should be encouraged so that illegal harvesting from the wild would not be profitable or necessary.

 

[shred5]

To have something removed from the list I'd imagine that you'd need a scientific, peer reviewed study (or studies) showing that the animal is not endangered. I foresee great difficulties with this.

My take is that if a coral is truly endangered, then collection must be controlled, at the very least, and banned in the most dire cases. However, captive cultivation of those species already in the hobby should not be negatively impacted, but rather, should be encouraged so that illegal harvesting from the wild would not be profitable or necessary.

I agree 100 percent with this. and you said it perfectly... encouraged is the right word.

Propagation and farming should be encouraged so there is less stress on the ocean. It also stops black market.
I have never been against banning corals or regualting the amounts of corals in the wild if need be.

 

[AHDOnline]

MAC has been gone for years and doesnt exist in the form it use to. However the collection stations that were MAC certified are still proud to be and stick by the process put in place. So its gone but not forgotten.

Both MASNA and PIJAC have released statements on the 66 corals, along with Coral Magazine which is doing as best they can to gather the scientific data or more so make sure the support to have educated people making decisions instead of the people who dont know what coral is.

MASNA Blog - MASNA submits its response to the proposed ESA listings of multiple corals
MASNA Blog - MASNA Response to ESA Listing for 82 Coral Species coming today
MASNA Blog - proposed Endangered Species Act listing may lead to a ban on all trade of the most common stony corals

 

[shred5]

MAC has been gone for years and doesnt exist in the form it use to. However the collection stations that were MAC certified are still proud to be and stick by the process put in place. So its gone but not forgotten.

Both MASNA and PIJAC have released statements on the 66 corals, along with Coral Magazine which is doing as best they can to gather the scientific data or more so make sure the support to have educated people making decisions instead of the people who dont know what coral is.

MASNA Blog - MASNA submits its response to the proposed ESA listings of multiple corals
MASNA Blog - MASNA Response to ESA Listing for 82 Coral Species coming today
MASNA Blog - proposed Endangered Species Act listing may lead to a ban on all trade of the most common stony corals

Thanks for this.. i have been out of town for a week.
I am now swamped at work since I have been gone so long..
I read some of it at lunch.

In other words, the proposed listing may very well prohibit and criminalize the transport and trade of all Acropora and Euphyllia species, (whether wild -collected, maricultured or captive-propagated, including those existing in hobbyists' aquariums at the time the regulation goes into effect), included those traded at frag swaps or between individual hobbyists, but may also prohibit moving one of these corals from one tank to another, or even taking a colony out of an existing aquarium for treatment, ect., and replacing it in the same aquarium

The above is what they should be trying to change... Instead everyone seems to be trying to stop the ban all together. The ban is not going to hurt as bad as not being able to trade or aquaculture the coral.

According to the above it will be illegal to even move a coral to a different tank, that is a little out there.

 

[AHDOnline]

According tot the above it will be illegal to even move a coral to a different tank that is a little out there.

And that is exactly right. That is where we have to get the unbiased and correct science to the right people to make it work.

 

[Chameleon]

No I do not support them, I know they are very violent but not towards animals. Thats all I'm saying. I do what I can locally.

If they are violent they are violent towards animals. Unless they go around smashing rocks and dirt all day
People are animals too...

 

[shred5]

Come on lets keep this constructive and not go there.
My point was simply this.. We need to have a permit to own these corals and we have to prove we owned them before this goes into effect. Basically if you can not prove you owned them you need to detroy the corals (which are animals) or your a criminal.. Destroying coral when this is supposed to save coral.. Makes no sense to me..

 

[Jordin Smith]

This is great stuff to be sure in order to help weed out the "black market" for corals but lets be honest here......the average joe who goes to a frag swap will not be affected. Do you really think there is going to be sting operations during your local reef get togethers? it will likely make it harder to get certain types of corals but there is no real way to enforce permits and specific corals that you may currently have in your tank.

You are not going to get a knock at your door from the "Coral Police" asking to check your tank for an illegal coral. The larger LFS may be checked out but there is no way to enforce the average joe.

Movie pirating is also against the law and aside from the off person who hosts terabytes of illegal movies nobody gets caught or fined.

just my 2 cents

 

[shred5]

This is great stuff to be sure in order to help weed out the "black market" for corals but lets be honest here......the average joe who goes to a frag swap will not be affected. Do you really think there is going to be sting operations during your local reef get togethers? it will likely make it harder to get certain types of corals but there is no real way to enforce permits and specific corals that you may currently have in your tank.

You are not going to get a knock at your door from the "Coral Police" asking to check your tank for an illegal coral. The larger LFS may be checked out but there is no way to enforce the average joe.

Movie pirating is also against the law and aside from the off person who hosts terabytes of illegal movies nobody gets caught or fined.

just my 2 cents

There will be no frag swaps eventually.. If this does not get stopped all corals will be on the list. No one will risk it eventually. Some will get the permit but eventaully loose the coral. Some will still trade yes but eventually with out big coral farms and no coral coming in from the wild the hobby is dead. Corals eventually die due to the inevitable tank crash, stn, rtn or bacterial infections .etc. The prices for most coral will go through the roof... With out places like liveaquara which can mass propagate corals they wont be around forever. You think places like Dr. F&S will risk it? No one will sell on ebay... Most people will eventually say why risk it... ... The hobby might survive for a few or the very rich. Anyway you look at it this hobby will be allot smaller if they eventually put all coral on that list.
Unless they are convinced it is ok to propagate, sell and trade coral that are already in the hobby. The hobby can survive with a ban on collection I beleive.


Do you really think the hobbyist can keep the number corals alive that are in the hobby now..


You use movies well if there are no new movies who will pirate them and what for...

 

[NeveSSL]

I think you guys are swinging to two extremes. Will frag swaps go completely away? Absolutely not. There are a LOT of corals that ARE NOT on this list, correct? However, this list will have a significant impact on what is available and what is not, there is no doubt on that one, but to have a blanket statement saying either nothing is going to happen or that the hobby is going to completely go away are both, in my opinion, naive.

Think about how many corals will not be affected. Those will be what people grow and continue to enjoy and will continue to sell at frag swaps.

Brandon

 

[shred5]

I think you guys are swinging to two extremes. Will frag swaps go completely away? Absolutely not. There are a LOT of corals that ARE NOT on this list, correct? However, this list will have a significant impact on what is available and what is not, there is no doubt on that one, but to have a blanket statement saying either nothing is going to happen or that the hobby is going to completely go away are both, in my opinion, naive.

Think about how many corals will not be affected. Those will be what people grow and continue to enjoy and will continue to sell at frag swaps.

Brandon

Eventually all corals will be on the list. Read the addendum they are already talking about adding more and they have not even voted on these.
Thats why I said it would not have a real big impact at first.

Increasing the number and/or species authorized to be taken or imported/exported.

 

[NeveSSL]

Until its done, its all speculation either way.

Brandon

 

[stunreefer]

A main concern of these proposed plans is that the agencies won't look into them too closely; over time they won't decide which specific corals should be banned, as it's infinitely easier to impose and enforce a blanket ban on everything.

Support and stay informed through PIJAC and MASNA.

No I do not support them, I know they are very violent but not towards animals. Thats all I'm saying. I do what I can locally.

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

 

[3dpilot]

I hope that whoever's in charge of enforcing this ban have a plan or a place for coral owners to surrender all this soon to be illegal species. Does anyone know an approximation on when this :ban: will take effect?!

 

[shred5]

Until its done, its all speculation either way.

Brandon

It pretty much has.
They have already decided what corals are going to be listed. I think they left one out.
They have decided which ones are listed as threatened and endangered.
That is why they say apply for permit now. If this wasn’t going through why would that even be there?
It will take a miracle to change this but you are right there still is the final vote. My guess at his point only J.E.N. Veron can get these off the list and I doubt he can at this point anymore, petition period ended. . But they still need to get that aquaculture thing removed. Eventually they will succeed at getting corals on the the list anyway and if that ais not removed it dont matter.


My bet is they move one or two corals off that list in final vote...


Honestly I still think a small ban would wake the hobby up... I think in the future things will turn out more constructive because a ban would get us a voice too... Make people realize this hobby could be ended just like that if we dont do something and band together. i think for more people they may become more responisble in keeping their animals and in their postings too.

Do I think he hobby is over ...NO
Do I think this going ban into affect.. absolutely.
Do I think this will affect the hobby … absolutely.


I think the hobby moves ahead but it improves. I think people become much more aware. My points may seem like doom and gloom earlier but that is what will happen if we continue on the same road we are on and do nothing.



Also there is a difference between those listed as endangered and those listed as threatened. Threatened does not need a permit. Most of the corals listed are on the threatened list for now..

I hope that whoever's in charge of enforcing this ban have a plan or a place for coral owners to surrender all this soon to be illegal species. Does anyone know an approximation on when this

will take effect?!

Nov 30

 

[swayd]

This is scary, I hope our local fish stores dont go out of business especially those that are reef specific.

 

[NeveSSL]

That is highly unlikely. The corals listed will represent a very small portion of their sales.

Brandon