OP
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Aquaph8 I have read most of your posts in this thread and they are very constructive... I agree....
Corals to be banned and it will be illigal to own them.
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Aquaph8 I have read most of your posts in this thread and they are very constructive... I agree....
H2O
Well-Known Member
That's the same people that r protecting the honey bees and all the other animals mean while airplanes spray clouds on the daily look up chemtrails or just look at the sky in the morning its what's killing all the little bugs now they making coral illegal this is worst then terrorism those folks need to go from office asap
Cooterbrown
Community Member
as a farmer this would be pretty bad for me. i have lots of euphilias, acanthastreas, etc that are on that list. i also have corals that are extinct in the wild already. green palau nepthea anyone? yet its in half the tanks in this area. hows that work for their argument? technically its endangered now i would imagine and its traded like kenya tree with out a glance.
like has been said before they would have no way of enforcing this. what are they going to do? monitor our electric bills and look for that "blue glow" coming from our basements and do coral busts? we can't even eliminate drugs in our country, due partly to lack of funding and the fact they are easily created in our homes. same with coral. i would hate to be pigeon holed into the same category as a meth lab cook, but I'm in this hobby for the love of the animals. most of the stuff i farm is 10s if not hundreds of generations from the ocean. in my opinion they have evolved ever so slightly to captivity and different lighting spectrum, and morphed etc. they may have similar DNA to the original wild caught colony but just like with wolves, our dogs aren't considered wolves, they're domesticated. corals are domesticated in the same sense in a lot of cases. i know for a fact my branching frogspawn if 6th generation captive grown at least. i can trace its lineage from my tank, my brother in laws tank, to a friend to a friend all the way to the local fish store.the original 2 heads were purchased almost 10 years ago. in my mind thats no different than anything else.
also look at bangai cardinals, they're endangered but we all have them or could easily buy one no permit needed. a lot of animals in the pet trade are endangered and captive bred, look at birds. if they pull it off i will be very surprised. if it does, then someone would need them to look into other areas of the exotic pet trade, like tortoises etc....
and I'm no lawyer but i would think ex post facto would apply somewhere.
like has been said before they would have no way of enforcing this. what are they going to do? monitor our electric bills and look for that "blue glow" coming from our basements and do coral busts? we can't even eliminate drugs in our country, due partly to lack of funding and the fact they are easily created in our homes. same with coral. i would hate to be pigeon holed into the same category as a meth lab cook, but I'm in this hobby for the love of the animals. most of the stuff i farm is 10s if not hundreds of generations from the ocean. in my opinion they have evolved ever so slightly to captivity and different lighting spectrum, and morphed etc. they may have similar DNA to the original wild caught colony but just like with wolves, our dogs aren't considered wolves, they're domesticated. corals are domesticated in the same sense in a lot of cases. i know for a fact my branching frogspawn if 6th generation captive grown at least. i can trace its lineage from my tank, my brother in laws tank, to a friend to a friend all the way to the local fish store.the original 2 heads were purchased almost 10 years ago. in my mind thats no different than anything else.
also look at bangai cardinals, they're endangered but we all have them or could easily buy one no permit needed. a lot of animals in the pet trade are endangered and captive bred, look at birds. if they pull it off i will be very surprised. if it does, then someone would need them to look into other areas of the exotic pet trade, like tortoises etc....
and I'm no lawyer but i would think ex post facto would apply somewhere.
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Really? #facepalm
I would think LFSes, online stores, coral farmers, etc. have the most to lose here. They will be the ones who can't sell these corals any longer. At the same time, for most of the LFSes this would represent a very small part of their sales I would bet.
I will be very, very disappointed if all of this goes through and quite frankly, I've got a feeling it will.
Brandon
AHDOnline
Community Member
Petsmart and Petco? Where do you get that from?
PIJAC is the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council They are the voice of reason for a lot of bills that get submitted, very important to get to know them and subscribe to the mailing list so you can actually get updated information when there is time to act on it.
PIJAC is the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council They are the voice of reason for a lot of bills that get submitted, very important to get to know them and subscribe to the mailing list so you can actually get updated information when there is time to act on it.
Chameleon
Valuable Member
rofl...
OP
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Look who sits on the board.
Andy Izquierdo
PetSmart, Inc., Phoenix, AZ
Marcie Whichard
PETCO Animal Supplies Inc., San Diego, CA
Tom Edling
Petco Animal Supplies, San Diego, CA
What troubles me is these are the places that give us a bad name.
The whole Hawaii bill that didn't pass came close and is being brought again had allot to do with petco.. All the boycotters were at petco.
I am not saying this is a bad organization. I am just a little skeptical.
OP
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Thats right.. they will stop importing anything that looks close and retailers will stop selling too.. They will come after the retail, importers and farmers..
Home aquariums they wont unless someone gets turned in by someone else. Only problem is once your colony dies than what? this hobby wil get smaller and smaller as more colonies die. You wont be able to get more unless someone you really trust has one.
But eventually every coral will be on that list now they discovered they can hurt the hobby this way.
This one is too late to stop but they will resume to add more corals too the list, it is already in there that they are going to add more..
By the way they can vote to take stuff off and that is where we can turn this around.
I am going to get a hold of Walt Smith he was one of the first too alert me to this I believe and see what he has to say.
You know what I find funny not one vendor, retailer, sponsor, farmer, chop shop, etc has weighed in on this issue?
I wonder if something is going on behind the scenes right now. Usually I am alerted to this stuff but I have taken a step back in the hobby over the years plus i have been out of town for a while...
Also we need to turn this around on these people... These are animals and basically if we dont get a permit they want us to desrtroy them.. What is that about killing animals.
This reminds me of the time the animal activist wanted to stop hunting So they put some glass in the dog food to kill hunters dogs.. Really? this is about the samehting.
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OP
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You talking about the bill to stop collection of fish in Hawaii? Well yea eventually you would think.
This is not a bill really though...
AHDOnline
Community Member
PIJAC has been around for years and is made up of MANY industry people including Quality Marine, Segrest also. They have been fighting for the industy for years and are our only real voice.
I cannot speak for Petsmart, nor do I want to get into that conversation but Petco has been working very hard and throwing a lot of money at sustainability in the marine hobby.
Its important to remember this bill was submitted LAST year, the comment period closed LAST november so right now its a sit and wait until our next chance to fight is. Joining PIJAC (or just the newsletter) or signing up for MASNA is your best bet at the moment to get the information needed to make a difference
TropTreaEtc
New Member
Ths is qhat happened to the snakeskin fish. There were a few individuals that did not have common sense but they banned to entire list of fish called snakeskin even though most of them get no longer than 6", and were only tank breed at the time. Result were many species ended up completly extinct.
Blake11rebel
Active Member
"This reminds me of the time the animal activist wanted to stop hunting to they put some glass in the dog food to kill hunters dogs.. Really? this is about the samething."
I'm an animal rights activist and I've never heard of such nonsense. I do pet rescue work and shelter volunteering. I know there are some really radical groups like PETA that take things way to far. However I do not believe they would ever kill ANY animal!
I liked your point about what there motivation may be in passing this. Petco, Petsmart, etc.. are terrible places to buy live animals from.
Even if they made it illegal to possess they could not enforce it. I would still keep my acro's, monti's and frogspawn I wouldnt hide them or throw them out! There alive and hopefully I will keep them that way regardless.
This whole thing is about $$$$
I'm an animal rights activist and I've never heard of such nonsense. I do pet rescue work and shelter volunteering. I know there are some really radical groups like PETA that take things way to far. However I do not believe they would ever kill ANY animal!
I liked your point about what there motivation may be in passing this. Petco, Petsmart, etc.. are terrible places to buy live animals from.
Even if they made it illegal to possess they could not enforce it. I would still keep my acro's, monti's and frogspawn I wouldnt hide them or throw them out! There alive and hopefully I will keep them that way regardless.
This whole thing is about $$$$
Mike J.
2500 Club Member
Oh no, animal rights activists won't hurt anything. I beg to differ. These groups are listed on the FBI's terrorist list: PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), HSUS (Humane Society of the United States), ELF (Earth Liberation Front), ALF (Animal Liberation Front). Please people don't support these organizations.
Blake11rebel
Active Member
No I do not support them, I know they are very violent but not towards animals. Thats all I'm saying. I do what I can locally.
OP
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Well here in WI they hunt bear with dogs and it is kind of cruel. They were trying to kill the hunters dogs.
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Tropicorium owner and employee charged with federal wildlife crimes ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
Well here is someone busted for illegally taking a number of protected species of coral and fish today.
How many of us knew Richard or have been to tropicorium.. I have been there and met Richard.. They were a sponsor in the past of reef2reef for a while I think too...
I wonder what really is happening here?
Gorgonia flabellum has been illegal for a long time. I have seen some floating around the hobby lately too... I wonder if they collected it or received it from someone?
Anyone that dives in the Florida areas knows this stuff is everywhere and there is no reason for it to be protected either. The only problem is this stuff shows up in the tourist shops in Florida and sold dried out like a lot of bleached coral, starfish, conch shells and sponges.... they do more damage to the reefs than the reef hobby.
Well here is someone busted for illegally taking a number of protected species of coral and fish today.
How many of us knew Richard or have been to tropicorium.. I have been there and met Richard.. They were a sponsor in the past of reef2reef for a while I think too...
I wonder what really is happening here?
Gorgonia flabellum has been illegal for a long time. I have seen some floating around the hobby lately too... I wonder if they collected it or received it from someone?
Anyone that dives in the Florida areas knows this stuff is everywhere and there is no reason for it to be protected either. The only problem is this stuff shows up in the tourist shops in Florida and sold dried out like a lot of bleached coral, starfish, conch shells and sponges.... they do more damage to the reefs than the reef hobby.
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