Corals to be banned and it will be illigal to own them.

[cdness]

If or should I say when this bill passes, I'm gonna be ******! my frogspawn just started splitting like crazy!! Oh well, I guess ill go to the nearest beach and toss it back into the ocean... or the garbage can. lol.

It is attitudes and comments like this that end up in the hands of the environmentalists we are trying to fight against. Introduction of non-native species to an area can cause just as much destruction as pollution, run off, or dynamite fishing in the long run. We need to be sure to not start hurting our cause from the inside as we have enough attackers coming from outside the hobby...

Making this public is one of the best things we can do. Can someone put together a message we can use to send to local press with supporting evidence justifying our side of the fight? There are many reporters who would love to get this information in the form of a well written press release and will get it printed in local papers. This will get our side of the story off the forum pages and into the hands of the general public via the news stations and newspapers. I can try to write something up but I know we have some good writers on this board who can do much better than myself.

Who's up for the challenge?

 

[Blake11rebel]

cobraz has a good point!

 

[Pappy]

This is just another example of big government laying the hammer down on something they have no idea about. This is just another lobbyist hippie group pushing the right buttons. And as states before enforcement will be impossible BUT if this goes through the flood gates could open! Shred is there a senator or congressman of some sorts that we can all email and stress the non importance of this. Maybe a vendor could draft a quick mock email attachment (with the irrelevance of the paper and false research and rebuttals to)and a link to the person we need to overflow their inbox.

This environmentalist movement is driving me crazy with all the fertilization issues and bans I've been facing in Florida despite scientific evidence done by university of Florida, department of environmental protection, and EPA.

Al Gore and Michael Moore need to be put in jail and have rocks thrown at them for all this crap over the last 10-15 years! Lol

 

[Coraloliseffect]

I think a better tack is - for every aqua coral farm to be signed up to donate back 10% .. back into the wild.
It would repopulate reefs and give back from their profits. The end result is to protect the hobby and the reefs.

Stopping collecting - does not restock destroyed areas... as a scuba diver - I have seen areas wiped out by mother nature not just collectors.
They should be putting their energy in restoring the reefs... our industry an do just that... many of us sell frags over and over.
Why cant they distrubute frags in the wild.. I am sure on a small scale it's happening.
But heres a chance to do it on a large scale with the bill.

Check out kens group.
http://www.coralrestoration.org/
And help such groups out.
Note many of the volunteer hours and funds have come from people like you. (By you I mean you reading this right now.

 

[Aquaph8]

It is attitudes and comments like this that end up in the hands of the environmentalists we are trying to fight against. Introduction of non-native species to an area can cause just as much destruction as pollution, run off, or dynamite fishing in the long run. We need to be sure to not start hurting our cause from the inside as we have enough attackers coming from outside the hobby...

Making this public is one of the best things we can do. Can someone put together a message we can use to send to local press with supporting evidence justifying our side of the fight? There are many reporters who would love to get this information in the form of a well written press release and will get it printed in local papers. This will get our side of the story off the forum pages and into the hands of the general public via the news stations and newspapers. I can try to write something up but I know we have some good writers on this board who can do much better than myself.

Who's up for the challenge?

Agreed, I think included should be some of the great things going on in the hobby not only to show a positive side of things but to also get some exposure for some great people and programs that are out there. For example, the Bangaii rescue project, I'm sure there are a few coral rescue programs out there, and of coarse the breeding efforts of people like Karen Brittain. For those not familiar, here is the blog of her most recent project, from fish eggs to fry. This project was helped along with help from many hobbiest donations of money and fish and is a wonderful example of what a few can accomplish.

As a whole unfortunately we have to take the blame for some of the irresponsible decisions that others have made like the lion fish problem in Florida and algae issues elsewhere but I think if the rest of us trying to make an effort in good ways, either through donations or actions can get some exposure and more people on board we can battle some of the bad press. What hurts is that some of the best of us have disappeared from the forums almost completely in the last few years due to the crazy over commercialism turn the hobby has taken. It's these people that can educate the future hobbiest the best and they've chosen to bail completely. Alright now Im just rambling on and on about multiple topics, haha.

I guess what I really want to say is, Try to stop once and a while and figure out how you can give back to this wonderful hobby we all love. There really is a way for everybody to make this stuff happen. Support breeders, help other hobbiest and do your best to make your own animals thrive.

 

[GHill762]

Agreed, I think included should be some of the great things going on in the hobby not only to show a positive side of things but to also get some exposure for some great people and programs that are out there. For example, the Bangaii rescue project, I'm sure there are a few coral rescue programs out there, and of coarse the breeding efforts of people like Karen Brittain. For those not familiar, here is the blog of her most recent project, from fish eggs to fry. This project was helped along with help from many hobbiest donations of money and fish and is a wonderful example of what a few can accomplish.

As a whole unfortunately we have to take the blame for some of the irresponsible decisions that others have made like the lion fish problem in Florida and algae issues elsewhere but I think if the rest of us trying to make an effort in good ways, either through donations or actions can get some exposure and more people on board we can battle some of the bad press. What hurts is that some of the best of us have disappeared from the forums almost completely in the last few years due to the crazy over commercialism turn the hobby has taken. It's these people that can educate the future hobbiest the best and they've chosen to bail completely. Alright now Im just rambling on and on about multiple topics, haha.

I guess what I really want to say is, Try to stop once and a while and figure out how you can give back to this wonderful hobby we all love. There really is a way for everybody to make this stuff happen. Support breeders, help other hobbiest and do your best to make your own animals thrive.

Many invasive species are dumped with bilge water from cargo ships.. Hobbyists shouldn't take all the blame there..

 

[GHill762]

I think a better tack is - for every aqua coral farm to be signed up to donate back 10% .. back into the wild.
It would repopulate reefs and give back from their profits. The end result is to protect the hobby and the reefs.

Stopping collecting - does not restock destroyed areas... as a scuba diver - I have seen areas wiped out by mother nature not just collectors.
They should be putting their energy in restoring the reefs... our industry an do just that... many of us sell frags over and over.
Why cant they distrubute frags in the wild.. I am sure on a small scale it's happening.
But heres a chance to do it on a large scale with the bill.

There are hobby supported reef rebuilding non profits.. One of then allows you to "adopt" anywhere from one coral to a whole tree of corals that are grown on frag trees in the ocean. They update you with pics of how it's doing and eventually they get put into the reef.

For example:
http://www.adoptacoral.org/coralrn/catalog/index.php

It's definitely happening already..

They are also building whole reefs out of calcified metal frames and planting them with various corals..

 

[DSP]

It is attitudes and comments like this that end up in the hands of the environmentalists we are trying to fight against. Introduction of non-native species to an area can cause just as much destruction as pollution, run off, or dynamite fishing in the long run. We need to be sure to not start hurting our cause from the inside as we have enough attackers coming from outside the hobby...

Making this public is one of the best things we can do. Can someone put together a message we can use to send to local press with supporting evidence justifying our side of the fight? There are many reporters who would love to get this information in the form of a well written press release and will get it printed in local papers. This will get our side of the story off the forum pages and into the hands of the general public via the news stations and newspapers. I can try to write something up but I know we have some good writers on this board who can do much better than myself.

Who's up for the challenge?

+1 once again.Cdness knows what he's talking about.

 

[VirusAcro]

Just have some live rocks in ur tank then u be safe.. hehe

 

[H2O]

All the oil spills , fukushima nuclear spill , last week Howaii some other crap spill that will kill most of fish there , over fishing ,plus all worlds sewers running off to the ocean is killing everything and here we got some idiot blaming the lil guy with a fish tank for dieing reefs we need to stand up and kick some ...

 

[Aquaph8]

Many invasive species are dumped with bilge water from cargo ships.. Hobbyists shouldn't take all the blame there..

I don't remember giving hobbyist all the blame but in all honesty we deserve our fair share. Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than to make excuses.

 

[Eienna]

Legislation like this would be absolutely crippling to captive propagation.

 

[jt17]

How will we not be able to propagate captive animals? Remember we are talking about CITIES which was created to save elephants and black rhinos both of which are still propagated in the US. The goal of this law is to stop collecting and start propagating. I would thing more sponsors would chime in on this as it affects them more.
Don't get me wrong, I think the last thing we need is more regulation. I think it should be up to the countries to whom the reefs belong to to tell us when to stop collecting their natural resource, but it's par for the course our government telling others nations what's best for them.

 

[3dpilot]

Ok, I apologize to all the responsible coral owners out there, apparently my comments are the reason why corals are being banned. I was kidding man, I care about my livestock just like the next guy, why else would I go through all this trouble keeping this guys alive not to mention the money we spend on lights etc.
So....What would happen if the corals are banned? Is there a place to surrender your livestock? Personally idk about this permit stuff, it sounds expensive and how do you even prove that you owned it before the ban? I guess we can always keep em... hopefully not go to jail cuz of corals.

 

[GHill762]

Ok, I apologize to all the responsible coral owners out there, apparently my comments are the reason why corals are being banned. I was kidding man, I care about my livestock just like the next guy, why else would I go through all this trouble keeping this guys alive not to mention the money we spend on lights etc.
So....What would happen if the corals are banned? Is there a place to surrender your livestock? Personally idk about this permit stuff, it sounds expensive and how do you even prove that you owned it before the ban? I guess we can always keep em... hopefully not go to jail cuz of corals.

I think your point makes sense. If it's illegal and you have nowhere to go with it, how many corals will end up in trash cans? I'd bet quite a few. Nobody wants that but if you're facing criminal charges for owning illegal livestock, I think many would go that route, and who could blame them? Also, if they're confiscated they'll surely die.

 

[Dmmz]

I will have to keep my sump in the family room and dt in a closet of this goes through

 

[jbonez]

This is crazy its gonna be scary if they do try to ban these corals ....

 

[frugner]

take a picture of all your corals while holding a newpaper in front. that could prove you owned them before the listings. or even mail a picture of your tank to yourself and never open it. that still works in courts right?

 

[dknuckles]

Here in the Detroit area we constantly have enormous global freighters dumping tons of bilge water filled w/ invasive species directly into the opening into the Detroit river. Sadly EPA clumps them w/ hobbyist reefers...although shipping companies are not being held accountable for there indiscriminate comtaminations "cost to commerce is too great" Carl Levin (D) although he did recognize the hobbyists that have helped re-seed many reef disasters around the globe.
Sadly, some preally are not concerned that coral are living beings (like a dog/cat) and discard w/o any thought.

Please!!! everyone contact your congresman and give your input! Many do not know our hobby or the benefits we provide to nature so lets help try to educate them, mine was very greatful for the information from the hobbyist standpoint. There are so many valid points for both sides I truly hope it can work to benefit everyone and everything

 

[shred5]

It is attitudes and comments like this that end up in the hands of the environmentalists we are trying to fight against. Introduction of non-native species to an area can cause just as much destruction as pollution, run off, or dynamite fishing in the long run. We need to be sure to not start hurting our cause from the inside as we have enough attackers coming from outside the hobby...

Making this public is one of the best things we can do. Can someone put together a message we can use to send to local press with supporting evidence justifying our side of the fight? There are many reporters who would love to get this information in the form of a well written press release and will get it printed in local papers. This will get our side of the story off the forum pages and into the hands of the general public via the news stations and newspapers. I can try to write something up but I know we have some good writers on this board who can do much better than myself.

Who's up for the challenge?

Agreed and that is part of the problem right there.. If anyone remembers the banning of fish in Hawaii bill not too long ago by snorkel BOB.. They had a facebook page.. They used comments like that to get their point across and some of them may have been from this very message board.

That is where things can start right here on the message boards because these people frequent the larger forum sites looking for ammunition.. They also use our experts/authors to prove thier points. We don't need them going: look this author/expert states this needs to be in this size tank and look at all these people who keep them in smaller tanks and this is animal cruelty. Or these authors say that water changes should be this much weekly and look at all these people who never do water changes. We just need to be more responsible in our posting for starters and not give these people ammunition.. People need to remember these corals are actually animals.

What stinks about this movement is it is not just banning corals from being collected from the wild it is banning the propagation, selling or trading.. You can own them with a permit if you can prove you owned them before this goes into affect.

That is the whole problem with this action... Look at giant clams they almost went extinct. we now farm them in enough numbers to provide the aquarium industry and the food industry and put some back in the wild.. Stuff like this we need do to support.

We need to stop the chop shops and support the farmer. We need to actively boycott these people to prove we care and are taking charge and trying to make a difference.

We need to support the lfs that provide good advice and give there stock the proper care and not use those that give bad advice and dont provide their livestock with the proper care and help try to educate them.

We need to do better importing and change the importers so less livestock is lost.

Allot of people donate to some of the save the reef foundations.. We need to very this money we donate is not to one of the groups that support this garbage..

As far as organizing, that was tried once with mac and failed because they really turned on us. They were pretty much funded by the aquarium industry.

A expert/author, marine biologist like Julian Sprung who knows the hobby as well as wild reef situation and with more connections would be a good start to help start up something... Eric Borneman would have been a good choice if he was in the industry because he knew more about what was happening in the wild than anybody and also in the hobby.. We need the whole industry to get involved, from retailers, importers, wholesalers, farmers, manufacturers.. They all stand to loose something... I know there was something started when they tried to stop all fish coming out of Hawaii, Maybe they are the place to start...

I am really ok with most of these corals being banned from collection, I am not ok with them trying to do away with the ones already in the hobby.. Once this is voted on the very next meeting there will be others added, it is already in their notes to add more corals to this list.

I am ok with banning corals from collection or even regulating them, I am not ok with them telling me I can not own what I already have.

I just got home from vacation so I will read the rest of the post here and see what others are saying elsewhere... My bet is something is already in the works now that this one seems to have woke up the industry some.... Most threads on this stuff get a few posts and die... this already is a better start...