Dinos in a nano.

[Denisk]

so a little back story. I have a 22 gallon sumpless nano that has been running for 2 years with live rock from Florida. It’s had it’s fair share of ugly stages but recently I’ve been having some pale sps and cloudy bacterial blooms which ultimately was due to very low/undetectable nitrates and super low phosphates. Everyone recommended dosing nitrates and phosphates since higher feedings never worked in raising anything.

fast forward about a week I started dosing nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates got raised fairly quickly and phosphates were always tough to raise. Stopped dosing the nitrates as it was about 28ppm but the phosphates were always super low around .02ppm. Corals continued to look better, frogspawn was super fat and fluffy but then boom, out of no where I got Dino’s.

glass literally turns brown after wiping it down in 30 minutes. Sand is covered and so is the rocks. I always thought Dino’s kind of came from bottoming out nitrates and phosphates but now I think it’s more from an uneven imbalance but it almost seems like finding that balance is super tricky. Not sure what to do but Uv on this system isn’t easy and can’t seem to find my microscope.

also I do notice it looks to be better/ water is more clear at night with the lights off. Any suggestions, would be greatly appreciated!

some photos

 

[saltyhog]

Need to get it under a microscope. I'm not certain that's actually dinos.

 

[Denisk]

Need to get it under a microscope. I'm not certain that's actually dinos.

Yeah I’m not sure when that will be. But it does appear to be it.

 

[taricha]

the look on the glass isn't dino-like, but the look on the sand definitely is.

Those long strings tell you that settlement is happening out of the water. It will be vulnerable to UV or some super-fine filtration.

 

[Denisk]

the look on the glass isn't dino-like, but the look on the sand definitely is.

Those long strings tell you that settlement is happening out of the water. It will be vulnerable to UV or some super-fine filtration.

Yeah currently turned the whites off and using filter and blowing everything rocks off while dosing nitrates and phosphates. Hoping to get some sort of algae to outcompete it.

 

[taricha]

Not much point in blasting surfaces to put it on the water unless you have something in the water to kill (UV) or export (fine filtration) the stuff.

 

[brandon429]

you need to rip clean that tank and fix it

further delay harms your setup, and ID does not matter one iota in a nano reef, it only matters in large tanks too big to rip clean

Denis

do you want to fix that nano or proceed on current course

a rip clean will get it back under control by 5 pm today, and the tank will look brand new and will totally skip cycle back to normal.

identification of an invader has no place in nano reefing, it is a form of hesitation responsible for many tank losses as folks go back and forth over cell ID. it's not like the fix method is changed between dinos, cyano, diatoms, hair algae, a rip clean is a ripped clean tank and it looks that way. that above is the beginning of the eutrophic downslide condition, we could fix that in five hours and your investment will be saved, plain as that.

7 rip cleans, plain as day fixes.

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

the last time I showed that to someone with a nano wrecked this bad below, they got angry and felt offended lol I still don't know why, their tank was dying and those above aren't.

here is their tank as of today:

if you don't want to fix your tank by 5 pm I'm primed and ready to accept that lol/won't get mad promise


and for contrast, a dinos poster who truly wanted to fix their tank in five hours: we did.
before:

after, five hours later:

I earnestly hope the images of a completely fixed nano without any ID hesitation whatsoever is not offensive. I mean well in the offer, that's for sure. fixing tanks for free is a nice thing to offer vs mean.

 

[brandon429]

only large tank owners who can't easily control their whole water column need to worry about params and ID> nano owners can simply act and win, every single time.

 

[BetterJake]

Rip clean is certainly an option. That being said, if nutrients bottom out again, the dinos will likely come right back.

 

[brandon429]

nice, agreed.

start clean, don't work from the invaded state, undo all hesitation that got us here

even if you can kill off that growth it is already plugging up all your surface area, and then it will be rotting cells plugging it up/substrate for gha and cyano cyclic invasions. must do clean slate rip clean, we don't use bottle bac in them because rip cleans are good not bad.

when a dentist rip cleans our mouth they don't go putting bacteria back in, the focus was taking bacteria + sloughs + plaques out, that's what we do in nano rip cleans.

those overgrowths are reducing your natural filter bacteria's presentation to wastewater. they are being blanketed, the live rock can't express waste out of its pores it has to retain it

the surface area that presents your filtration bac is reduced by the clogging mats and filaments.

(anyone who has set clean live rock in a bucket sees the detritus pellets that eject by the hour on the bottom of the formerly clean bucket, these rocks needs to express detritus waste vs retain it)

once in the guaranteed fix condition, looking like a brand new reef, enact hopeful prevention options. don't do hopeful fix options, do hopeful prevention options after a forced fix

 

[brandon429]

Denis



Curious if you found another nano reef specific cure thread as applicable to your setup as the link provided

which option did u select

 

[Beecharmer38]

you need to rip clean that tank and fix it

further delay harms your setup, and ID does not matter one iota in a nano reef, it only matters in large tanks too big to rip clean

Denis

do you want to fix that nano or proceed on current course

a rip clean will get it back under control by 5 pm today, and the tank will look brand new and will totally skip cycle back to normal.

identification of an invader has no place in nano reefing, it is a form of hesitation responsible for many tank losses as folks go back and forth over cell ID. it's not like the fix method is changed between dinos, cyano, diatoms, hair algae, a rip clean is a ripped clean tank and it looks that way. that above is the beginning of the eutrophic downslide condition, we could fix that in five hours and your investment will be saved, plain as that.

7 rip cleans, plain as day fixes.

Algae Identification

Any opinions on what type of algae this is growing on my rocks and sand bed?

www.reef2reef.com

Hi, I'm new to commenting on this forum...I've read a number of helpful posts, though! I got here specifically through a link discussing skip cycling when moving tanks and now learning about rip cleaning. I have had a 13 gallon for a few years so now I'm setting up a new 100 gallon and am interested in some of your posts I've read. I bought some great corals on live rock from a guy breaking down his tank but it was infested with aiptasia and covered in "gunk". I put it in a bare bottom tank "quarantine" tank with a wavemaker and 2 sponge filters. I added a file fish and he did a great job of clearing the aiptasia but the rocks still gunk up pretty quickly after cleaning. Now that is done I want to start setting up my 100 gallon. I will be using dry (well rinsed!) sand per your instruction and new rockwork in the display but I'd like to put some of the live rock in the sump (40 gallon) to provide bacteria. I have filter socks, a uv filter and better lights for the new tank. Does this sound like I'm on the right track? Any advice or links to your other posts where people have asked similar questions? Now is the perfect time because I have everything set to go but I am able to go any direction.

 

[brandon429]

Beecharmer

that is so kind of you, so happy to read that!
Welcome to Reef2Reef



we can run the fix right here. Fixing up your tank via rip clean live time vs as a past example is pertinent here

a live fix documentation is applicable here or in any invasion challenge

if Denis decides he’d like us to relocate then we can clean your reef via chat, and post the steps in the #1 best rip clean thread prior

if we can proceed, let’s do.

that’s best of the best in the prior example thread. Let’s do that for your tank, I’ll stay present for sure to the fix. We will for sure skip cycle and fix your tank


seeing someone genuinely interested in simple tank overhauls is refreshing

hey can you post us some nice update pics on the target rocks and sand and we will make a custom plan, very fun

we need to see how it exists in the current state, the fixed state will be exactly what you wanted.

Brandon

 

[Garf]

Hi, I'm new to commenting on this forum...I've read a number of helpful posts, though! I got here specifically through a link discussing skip cycling when moving tanks and now learning about rip cleaning. I have had a 13 gallon for a few years so now I'm setting up a new 100 gallon and am interested in some of your posts I've read. I bought some great corals on live rock from a guy breaking down his tank but it was infested with aiptasia and covered in "gunk". I put it in a bare bottom tank "quarantine" tank with a wavemaker and 2 sponge filters. I added a file fish and he did a great job of clearing the aiptasia but the rocks still gunk up pretty quickly after cleaning. Now that is done I want to start setting up my 100 gallon. I will be using dry (well rinsed!) sand per your instruction and new rockwork in the display but I'd like to put some of the live rock in the sump (40 gallon) to provide bacteria. I have filter socks, a uv filter and better lights for the new tank. Does this sound like I'm on the right track? Any advice or links to your other posts where people have asked similar questions? Now is the perfect time because I have everything set to go but I am able to go any direction.

Filefish tend to peck the Aiptasia to death, however if there is any remnant left they will grow back. Twice now I’ve experienced this phenomena, if you add that rock to the sump, live, they may regrow. Not a real problem if your putting the Filefish in the display, if you don’t want some sorts of fleshy coral (Filefish can attack those also). There are other ways to control Aiptasia, as most tanks get them sooner or later but it would be very irregular for anyone to help you inoculate your tank with Aiptasia.

 

[brandon429]

The blended setup mentioned will simply work for sure. an ideal way to make your new blended reef work is to use controlled cycling to be ready to carry fish by a certain preplanned date and then we study fish disease preps much of this time, the cycle is as good as done considering details from your description @Beecharmer38

fish disease preps are where it’s at, the new phase in reefing

let’s see the live rock, we will fix the aiptasia easily. setting up your rock cleaned without further delay coincides with our planned cycle ready date…the date your tank can carry fish

there are thorough means of removing aiptasia and prepping your rock to ready in one day. *we could use your final aiptasia removals as examples in that initial work thread…nobody has been willing to surgically remove the anemones until potentially now.


we can make the cycle comply and get it out of the way, you won’t need testing for the initial cycle. Live rock blending already alters your start date in known ways, you will be adding bottle bac in addition to live rock, your cycle isn’t hard to define you don’t need to test what we already apply in cycling work threads, the benefit is you can move past cycle issues and right into disease preps


the uv is perfect idea, we would set up the new tank as you’ve planned, set the rock totally cleaned of aiptasia into the blended reef and cycle it using no hesitation means. You’ll be up and reefing in a very clear way.

 

[brandon429]

Let’s see a couple pics for planning

 

[LARedstickreefer]

It might have been covered already, but how long can corals be left out of water? I’d like to remove my rocks and scrape them clean (as good as I can) but have corals encrusting on them.

 

[brandon429]

I have a video showing my 14 year old nano reef at the time, being drained fully empty for 33 mins in one take. They can go longer

the whole reef, rocks and all not just the corals in air


I was doing an air run stress test on purpose, you can just dribble saltwater over them during external cleaning. I can’t think of any species handled this way that would matter on the rocks, air emersion happens on real reefs routinely in certain zones that keep coral. Please take good pictures of any incremental work, thank you for posting as well for sure
it is amazing how tanks converge regardless of initial start

earlier it was mentioned ID of organisms doesn’t matter, the actions are the same in each rip clean and none of the tanks recycle if we rinse the sandbed as shown. Tap water until verified clean, then saltwater at the end to evacuate the tap. You’ll be left with a pile of rinsed mud that you can set back into the super cleaned tank, refill with nice clean water and resume

we can plan any aiptasia removals after pics are loaded up


the only two water params we test in a rip clean are temp and salinity, match all new make water to the current reefs temp and salinity if someone is doing full disassembly cleaning.

if you’re just lifting out rocks to work Redstickreefer, you can just set them on the counter and use a metal tool to scrape and dislodge unwanted targets, exactly like a dentist uses the sharpened steel pick on attachments they don’t want on our teeth. This is reef dentistry. Apply peroxide on the scraped areas of rocks, after they’ve been rasped free of algae and poured over with saltwater to rinse off the scrapings

sand is rinsed in tap water, it’s bacteria are bioloading in a reef tank. Sandbed bacteria + particulate waste matter / the clouding in an unclean sandbed/ are oxygen taxes to the system and they pump out waste acids, they are competitive organisms against fish and the bioloading we pay for that we can see. This is why rinsing out living sandbeds in tanks isn’t bad, it’s good, like a flushing run to the dentist prevents mouth infections via rasping, flushing and dislodging targets.


rocks are rinsed only in saltwater after they are target scraped and you can apply peroxide to the scraped areas, after rasping has dislodged targets on the rocks. Saltwater rinsing preserves bacteria, rock bacteria keep the cycle going in the new tank.

 

[Beecharmer38]

Beecharmer

that is so kind of you, so happy to read that!
Welcome to Reef2Reef



we can run the fix right here. Fixing up your tank via rip clean live time vs as a past example is pertinent here

a live fix documentation is applicable here or in any invasion challenge

if Denis decides he’d like us to relocate then we can clean your reef via chat, and post the steps in the #1 best rip clean thread prior

if we can proceed, let’s do.

that’s best of the best in the prior example thread. Let’s do that for your tank, I’ll stay present for sure to the fix. We will for sure skip cycle and fix your tank


seeing someone genuinely interested in simple tank overhauls is refreshing

hey can you post us some nice update pics on the target rocks and sand and we will make a custom plan, very fun

we need to see how it exists in the current state, the fixed state will be exactly what you wanted.

Brandon