DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[taricha]

Thanks for the correction. I conflated the discussion of your huge Alk consumption with the ammonia dosing.

At the low amount (.1 ppm of ammonia) I am dosing over a 24 hr period I still have a lot of questions about its availability to the zooxanthalle.
...
I do have a lot of fish and may be they produce enough ammonia

Yeah, viewed this way it's hard to see how the effect could be large.
If you estimate the N input that your fish eat, and ~80% of that is released as ammonia - that's going to be an order of magnitude larger than the 0.1ppm ammonia dosed directly.
I'd guess that whatever processes eat that large pool of fish-ammonia, they'd just scale up to the extra 0.1ppm dosed in a short time.

edit: but if that's corals getting it, then giving them an extra 10% or whatever ammonia is probably still desirable.

 

[LOVEROCK]

5.3mL

which ammonia source is that , I noticed some ammonia has percentage on them

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

which ammonia source is that , I noticed some ammonia has percentage on them

I gave exact directions in the first post of this thread. It tells how to make and use two different possible dosing solutions, and how much to use.

 

[Miami Reef]

which ammonia source is that , I noticed some ammonia has percentage on them

Read this:

13.5 grams of ammonium chloride (about 3 - 4.6 teaspoons, varies by brand) in 1 L RO/DI water.
OR
20 grams of ammonium bicarbonate (about 4 and 3/4 teaspoons) in 1 L RO/DI water.

Both solutions contain approximately 4300 mg/L (4.3 mg/mL) ammonia, equivalent to 15,700 mg/l nitrate.

Both recipes have the same final concentration. Thus, 5.3mL will raise your 60 gallon tank to 0.1ppm ammonia with either recipe.

 

[Jon_W79]

I think that one reason that ammonia dosing is probably a good thing (probably even for a tank with a lot of fish) is because I think that fish may be a very counterproductive way of giving corals ammonia. Ammonia from fish is counterproductive because I think that a relatively large amount of organic carbon is getting in the tank from the food the fish are being fed, and the organic carbon from the food is allowing bacteria to grow that consume ammonia and I think that the bacteria probably prevent corals from getting a lot of the ammonia from the fish.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004484869900085X

 

[LOVEROCK]

Read this:



Both recipes have the same final concentration. Thus, 5.3mL will raise your 60 gallon tank to 0.1ppm ammonia with either recipe.

Thank you , is this 1 L “ of solution normally like dosed non stop slowly into the tank ? How do you dose or spread out

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you , is this 1 L “ of solution normally like dosed non stop slowly into the tank ? How do you dose or spread out

From the directions in post #1;

Dosing

Don't be overly afraid of dosing ammonia due to toxicity, but one cannot dose substantial amounts all at once. IMO, it is safe to add 0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate) at once to any reef tank, and one can likely add more, if it mixes in well. Don't dose it right onto a fish, but dosing 2-3x that amount at once is also likely OK. Of course, using a dosing pump to spread out the dosing is fine and may be preferable, but be sure to guard against dosing pumps out of control (e.g., stuck on). Stock solutions can be increased or decreased in potency to match pumping needs. The ammonia could also be put into an ato since exact daily dosing is not required.

To add 0.1 mg/L ammonia to an aquarium, you would need to add 2.3 mL of either stock solution to a 100 L (26 gallon) aquarium. You may need to add this amount multiply times per day to dose enough.

I'd add it to a sump, if possible, to dilute it well before it gets to the main tank. Most folks dosing ammonia wouldn't also be using media intended to push the nitrogen cycle in various ways, but if you do, dose downstream of that media.

Of course, if anything seems to react badly the first time or two that you dose, stop dosing, double check the amounts, and perhaps come back to this thread for further discussion of what might be happening.

 

[Enderg60]

Minor update.

Ive been dosing 25ml daily to my 650g system and the nitrates are holding at 2.0. Ive also been dosing 5ml a day to my 60g Coral QT system and the nitrates are holding at 2.5 there.

So far Ive seen no downsides to dosing, all critters are fine, macro algae is growing and the corals are coloring up nicely.

Im going to hold at these levels until I introduce the next round of fish. I think Im will shoot for nitrates in the 5-10 range.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Minor update.

Ive been dosing 25ml daily to my 650g system and the nitrates are holding at 2.0. Ive also been dosing 5ml a day to my 60g Coral QT system and the nitrates are holding at 2.5 there.

So far Ive seen no downsides to dosing, all critters are fine, macro algae is growing and the corals are coloring up nicely.

Im going to hold at these levels until I introduce the next round of fish. I think Im will shoot for nitrates in the 5-10 range.

Sounds great. Thanks for the update.

 

[Sebae]

I’m trying to find an equivalent recipe to the ammonia chloride for hydroxide. How much ammonia hydroxide would be needed in 1 L for a solution that will increase ammonia by 0.1 ppm / 25 gal?

 

[TokenReefer]

I think that one reason that ammonia dosing is probably a good thing (probably even for a tank with a lot of fish) is because I think that fish may be a very counterproductive way of giving corals ammonia. Ammonia from fish is counterproductive because I think that a relatively large amount of organic carbon is getting in the tank from the food the fish are being fed, and the organic carbon from the food is allowing bacteria to grow that consume ammonia and I think that the bacteria probably prevent corals from getting a lot of the ammonia from the fish.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S004484869900085X

I don't see how you target one over the other though

 

[Jon_W79]

I don't see how you target one over the other though

I think the best that you can do is to feed the fish high protein food if you can, and to keep detritus out of the tank the best that you can.

What is CN Ratio in BIOFloc Technology and Why its important - Road to BIOFloc - Advance Fish Farming

Carbon to Nitrogen Ratio (CN Ratio) is a process of controlling the amount of Nitrogen in water. Most popular CN ratios are 10:1 and 15:1, which means in CN

roadtobiofloc.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m trying to find an equivalent recipe to the ammonia chloride for hydroxide. How much ammonia hydroxide would be needed in 1 L for a solution that will increase ammonia by 0.1 ppm / 25 gal?

Why? The recipes allow use of high quality ingredients. Do you already have high purity ammonium hydroxide?

 

[murraycamp1]

Why? The recipes allow use of high quality ingredients. Do you already have high purity ammonium hydroxide?

Interested in the answer to this question as well. I have a 30% Ammonium Hydroxide solution and trying to figure out dosage rates for addition of .1 ml/L to 25G. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interested in the answer to this question as well. I have a 30% Ammonium Hydroxide solution and trying to figure out dosage rates for addition of .1 ml/L to 25G. Thanks in advance for your help.

It's just going to be a different calculation for every individual with a different solution, and the ammonium hydroxide that strong is complicated since the density is not 1 g/mL.

That said, to match the potency in the first post 4.3 mg/mL ammonia in the dosing solution) we need to dilute that 30% as follows:

First, I have to assume it is 30% ammonium hydroxide and not 30% ammonia.

Second, Fisher says their 28-30% ammonium hydroxide has a density of 0.91 g/mL.

Thus, 1 mL contains 0.91x 0.3 = 0.27 g of ammonium hydroxide

Ammonium hydroxide is 49% ammonia by weight

So that 1 ml of your solution contains 0.49 x 0.27 = 0.13 g of ammonia = 132 mg of ammonia per mL

To dilute to match the solutions in the first post (4.3 mg/mL, we would add that 1 mL to 30 mL of RO/DI.

You can scale that up as needed, so 100 ml to 3 L RO/DI.

 

[LOVEROCK]

It's just going to be a different calculation for every individual with a different solution, and the ammonium hydroxide that strong is complicated since the density is not 1 g/mL.

That said, to match the potency in the first post 4.3 mg/mL ammonia in the dosing solution) we need to dilute that 30% as follows:

First, I have to assume it is 30% ammonium hydroxide and not 30% ammonia.

Second, Fisher says their 28-30% ammonium hydroxide has a density of 0.91 g/mL.

Thus, 1 mL contains 0.91x 0.3 = 0.27 g of ammonium hydroxide

Ammonium hydroxide is 49% ammonia by weight

So that 1 ml of your solution contains 0.49 x 0.27 = 0.13 g of ammonia = 132 mg of ammonia per mL

To dilute to match the solutions in the first post (4.3 mg/mL, we would add that 1 mL to 30 mL of RO/DI.

You can scale that up as needed, so 100 ml to 3 L RO/DI.

Is there any benefit of using hydroxide instead of the bicarbonate or the other one ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is there any benefit of using hydroxide instead of the bicarbonate or the other one ?

Not really. It has a tiny bit higher pH boost than ammonium bicarbonate, but the effect is low in either case.

 

[murraycamp1]

It's just going to be a different calculation for every individual with a different solution, and the ammonium hydroxide that strong is complicated since the density is not 1 g/mL.

That said, to match the potency in the first post 4.3 mg/mL ammonia in the dosing solution) we need to dilute that 30% as follows:

First, I have to assume it is 30% ammonium hydroxide and not 30% ammonia.

Second, Fisher says their 28-30% ammonium hydroxide has a density of 0.91 g/mL.

Thus, 1 mL contains 0.91x 0.3 = 0.27 g of ammonium hydroxide

Ammonium hydroxide is 49% ammonia by weight

So that 1 ml of your solution contains 0.49 x 0.27 = 0.13 g of ammonia = 132 mg of ammonia per mL

To dilute to match the solutions in the first post (4.3 mg/mL, we would add that 1 mL to 30 mL of RO/DI.

You can scale that up as needed, so 100 ml to 3 L RO/DI.

Thank you, Randy. I appreciate it. Have a great Xmas.

 

[Jon_W79]

That might be true, but I've not see any evidence that ammonia is converted to nitrate so rapidly that the dosing rate will matter.

My hypothesis is that ammonia molecules get captured, even if the water flow is fast, by getting stuck to the nitrifying bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria don’t need to rapidly convert ammonia to nitrate to prevent corals from getting the ammonia if they have captured the ammonia molecules. If my hypothesis is true, I believe the dosing rate would matter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My theory is that ammonia molecules get captured, even if the water flow is fast, by getting stuck to the nitrifying bacteria. The nitrifying bacteria don’t need to rapidly convert ammonia to nitrate to prevent corals from getting the ammonia if they have captured the ammonia molecules. If my theory is true, I believe the dosing rate would matter.

Is there any evidence for that hypothesis? Why would bacteria necessarily take it up faster than corals?