DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[LOVEROCK]

I've been dosing 0.4ppm of ammonia (ammonium carbonate stock solution as described by Randy, 0.1ppm four times per day) and so far so good. I'm still getting zero nitrates but growth has resumed and maxima's mantles more expanded.

are you dosing .1 ppm x4 or spread out .1 through 4 times , I putted it into my ato , think that’s okay ?

 

[14A]

are you dosing .1 ppm x4 or spread out .1 through 4 times , I putted it into my ato , think that’s okay ?

I've been dosing it by hand using a syringe. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have lunch at home, so I dose it once in the morning (0.1ppm, 08:00), then right when I get home for lunch (0.1ppm, 12:30), when I get home from work (0.1ppm, 20:00) and a final dose right before going to bed (0.1ppm, 23:00).

According to Randy it'd be okay. I just wonder whether the amount and place/partition matter.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

According to Randy it'd be okay. I just wonder whether the amount and place/partition matter.

The amount certainly matters, but I do not know if location matters. My expectation is that location won’t matter much.

 

[14A]

The amount certainly matters, but I do not know if location matters. My expectation is that location won’t matter much.

By amount I mean: Would dividing 1ppm into 24 doses be equivalent to having 1ppm in a single dose? For instance, if I administer 1/24 ppm in a partition, will there be any ammonia remaining when the water reaches my DT?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

By amount I mean: Would dividing 1ppm into 24 doses be equivalent to having 1ppm in a single dose? For instance, if I administer 1/24 ppm in a partition, will there be any ammonia remaining when the water reaches my DT?

Aside from possible toxicity from the single dose, I do not think that question can be answered with a high degree of confidence without trying both and seeing if there is a difference, but I expect that seeing a difference is unlikely.

 

[taricha]

Corals (and other photosynthetic organisms) may like nutrient pulses better than trying to keep it absolutely constant.
Nutrient pulses happen in nature, and many things have adapted to take advantage and respond with a phase of rapid uptake when they do happen.
Asymmetric physiological response of a reef‑building coral to pulsed versus continuous addition of inorganic nutrients

They hit Acropora with either seawater concentrations, or constant elevated PO4 (~1ppm), constant elevated ammonium (~0.2 ppm), constant both, or 30 min pulses of each 2x daily. This isn't exactly applicable, because they were testing for harm done by elevated nutrients - not how corals prefer to get their ammonia. But anyway, the constant elevation did worse than the controls, but the pulses seemingly did better than control.


My point is I wouldn't put much effort into giving corals round the clock even doses of ammonia, 1x or 3x a day pulses may be just as good or better.

 

[Jimbo327]

If ammonia is converted to nitrite, will the presence of nitrite interfere with some Nitrate test kits, giving a false high nitrate reading? Unless the nitrite to nitrate conversion is very fast, that there is very little interference? Just trying to wrap my brain about the previous targets for nitrate and how does dosing ammonia chloride impact that. Thanks.

 

[taricha]

If ammonia is converted to nitrite, will the presence of nitrite interfere with some Nitrate test kits, giving a false high nitrate reading? Unless the nitrite to nitrate conversion is very fast, that there is very little interference?

NO2 interferes with all NO3 tests (making them read higher).
I think that any nitrite produced regularly will spur nitrite oxidizers to scale up, but that may not be the case immediately or to the same extent in every tank.
If I were dosing ammonia and trying to monitor the nitrate level, then I would test nitrite to make sure it's not enough to affect NO3 results in a major way.
(Hanna high range nitrate has very little NO2 interference, Red Sea nitrate test has a little more, API nitrate has lots.)

 

[rtparty]

I tried to find the answer to this in the 19 pages of discussion...

Could I add ammonium bicarbonate to any of the additives I already dose? They are fully saturated kalk, soda ash, calcium chloride, and Part C from TM. I then add TM A and K to my alk and calcium supplements. I deciphered that ammonia in the kalk or soda ash would evaporate ammonia so probably not the best place. Both containers are reasonably sealed though.

I have an extra dosing pump and dosing containers so that is a possibility as well. Just dose the ammonia by itself.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tried to find the answer to this in the 19 pages of discussion...

Could I add ammonium bicarbonate to any of the additives I already dose? They are fully saturated kalk, soda ash, calcium chloride, and Part C from TM. I then add TM A and K to my alk and calcium supplements. I deciphered that ammonia in the kalk or soda ash would evaporate ammonia so probably not the best place. Both containers are reasonably sealed though.

I have an extra dosing pump and dosing containers so that is a possibility as well. Just dose the ammonia by itself.

You may be able to get some to dissolve in the soda ash. The others all have issues of various sorts.

 

[rtparty]

You may be able to get some to dissolve in the soda ash. The others all have issues of various sorts.

Thanks

The more I think about it, dosing it separately is likely the best route. I don’t need more than a gallon at a time and have the pump and room

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I’m curious if anyone else has had an extremely difficult to remove (green film algae?) substance overtaking their glass while dosing ammonia? I’m just over seven months into this and have had this very hardy yellow/green film start to pop up a couple months ago. At first I thought my flipper was dull so I ordered new blades. No difference with the new blades so I ordered up the tunze care magnet scraper that everybody raves about. No dice with that either. My back glass has always been covered in coralline, which is much easier to scrape off than this stuff. I’m not able to keep my front and side glass very clean anymore. I can remove the stuff but I have to manually use the flipper inside the tank (without using the outer magnet) at a steep angle with a lot of pressure. It’s pretty freakin tedious and I’m quite worried about scratching the glass. I’ve had reef tanks since the mid 90’s and never come across anything this stubborn before. This stuff is only on the front and side glass and comes back within a day or two….even if I clean the glass daily. Just curious to know if it could be in any way related to dosing ammonia or totally unrelated.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m curious if anyone else has had an extremely difficult to remove (green film algae?) substance overtaking their glass while dosing ammonia? I’m just over seven months into this and have had this very hardy yellow/green film start to pop up a couple months ago. At first I thought my flipper was dull so I ordered new blades. No difference with the new blades so I ordered up the tunze care magnet scraper that everybody raves about. No dice with that either. My back glass has always been covered in coralline, which is much easier to scrape off than this stuff. I’m not able to keep my front and side glass very clean anymore. I can remove the stuff but I have to manually use the flipper inside the tank (without using the outer magnet) at a steep angle with a lot of pressure. It’s pretty freakin tedious and I’m quite worried about scratching the glass. I’ve had reef tanks since the mid 90’s and never come across anything this stubborn before. This stuff is only on the front and side glass and comes back within a day or two….even if I clean the glass daily. Just curious to know if it could be in any way related to dosing ammonia or totally unrelated.

Ive not seen it mentioned. It kind of seems unlikely to be a common result of dosing ammonia since you are dosing something fish are excreting all the time, but I’m certainly interested to hear if others noticed a correlation.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Ive not seen it mentioned. It kind of seems unlikely to be a common result of dosing ammonia since you are dosing something fish are excreting all the time, but I’m certainly interested to hear if others noticed a correlation.

Thanks Randy. It’s probably unrelated but I figured I’d throw it out there just in case. Now to devise a mega, super, electromagnetic outer scraper handle with variable speed oscillation and ultrasonic transducers…..I might even need to go nuclear! It’s almost as if it’s etching the glass and planting roots deep below the surface. It’s pure evil.

 

[taricha]

I’m curious if anyone else has had an extremely difficult to remove (green film algae?) substance overtaking their glass while dosing ammonia?

I have had that recently on my glass, but no ammonia dosing. Incredibly tough to scrape green film that isn't noticeably calcified.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I have had that recently on my glass, but no ammonia dosing. Incredibly tough to scrape green film that isn't noticeably calcified.

I’ve been letting some grow out to see if it does calcify like coralline. I’m hoping it becomes easier to scrape off if it builds a base. So far, no dice.

 

[TokenReefer]

I’ve been letting some grow out to see if it does calcify like coralline. I’m hoping it becomes easier to scrape off if it builds a base. So far, no dice.

It's funny (to me) because I purposefully bought the tunze with the metal blade to get rid of (what I think might be) similar stuff. And it did, for me at least. I thought it was the base of coralline too.. Interested to see what it becomes

 

[joaocdestro]

Helo Friends, Thanks for the complete explanation about Ammonium!

Today I switch from: Calcium Nitrate Ca(No3)2 to Bicarbonate Ammonium NH₄HCO₃, my target is 5 to 20ppm No3 and 0,06 to 0,08 in Po4.

I feed my corals with lots of bacteria from carbon dosing. (skimmer off during daylight)

Doubts:
1) As I dose 8ml of Vodka during 24hrs, bacteria will "eat" the Ammonium before the corals? Should I reduce vodka as Ammonium will feed better the corals?
2) I'm using 20g of Bicarbonate Ammonium in 1 Liter R.O. - The 1L container is not hermeticaly closed, as I'm using dosing pump , It's very tight the Lid hole X Hose... should I worry about evaporation?
3) If I increase the concentration in this solution to, for exemple 200g to 1 Liter it will increase NH4 evaporation?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

1) As I dose 8ml of Vodka during 24hrs, bacteria will "eat" the Ammonium before the corals? Should I reduce vodka as Ammonium will feed better the corals?
2) I'm using 20g of Bicarbonate Ammonium in 1 Liter R.O. - The 1L container is not hermeticaly closed, as I'm using dosing pump , It's very tight the Lid hole X Hose... should I worry about evaporation?
3) If I increase the concentration in this solution to, for exemple 200g to 1 Liter it will increase NH4 evaporation?

I would not worry about evaporation in that container.

Why do you want to increase the concentration? Should be Ok if needed.

Why are you dosing the vodka? There may be good reasons to to it and dose ammonium, but I want to be sure there's a reason.

 

[joaocdestro]

I would not worry about evaporation in that container.

Why do you want to increase the concentration? Should be Ok if needed.

Why are you dosing the vodka? There may be good reasons to to it and dose ammonium, but I want to be sure there's a reason.

1) Ammonium Evaporation: great thank-you for info!


2) Results dosing Ammonium fist day: see Goniopora picture, almost 15cm of extention.

From Calcium Nitrate switched to Bicarbonate Ammonium - Noticeably more polyps extention!



2) Concentration solution with Ammonium:

2.1) I was using a very concentrated solution calcium nitrate Ca(No3)2 (250g in 1 liter of solution) so I was using just 3mL day to maintain 8-12ppm No3.

2.2) I decided that your recipe is more adequate and safe -> 20g Bicarbonate Ammonium on 1 Liter, so, to maintain the same imput in No3 (by wheight) it's 24ml day of Solution Bicarbonate Ammonium, this solution is 12X less concentrate. But I'm dosing 12 times a day 2ml each dosing (see schedule picture), with most of dosing during dayligt with skimmer off to increase the food in water colum.



3) Vodka: I'm dosing carbon with the objetive to create bacteria to feed corals and to maintain all parts of the aquarium clean from any organic deposition, another good side effect is a little Po4 reduction (bacteria exported by skimmer) resulting in less use of GFO. My rocks are very clean, just Vermited Snails...

*I had all kinds of problems in first years of my 230g aquarium, and I solved Dino's and algae outbreaks with increasing vodka until 18ml day! Before carbon, I tried all possible solutions, just elevating carbon dosing saved-me from Dino's! I was inspired by Dr. Tim's products based on bacteria.

That's why today I dose 8mL of vodka, but I sincerately don't know if it's a correct dosage, as all this carbon results in need for No3 supplementation.


4) I do Triton ICP tests every 3 months, I'm not a big Fan of water changes "when I change I do it once a year" I found carbon dosing + manipulating my own trace elements based on your recipes, the sweet spot on reef care.



Doubts:

Do you think I'ts healthier to reduce or even stop carbon dosing?

What do you think about the ammonium quantity? 12x2mL a day?

What do you think about the dosing ammonium schedule with daylight preference?

When you don't do water changes, and you do ICP tests, is there any possible BAD thing accumulation in water that you can't see? Example: If you don't do water changes, you will need to use Ozone or GAC to remove some bad chemichals from water...

Any recommendation or suggestion will be very welcome!