Fed up with Apex

[ShawnSaucier]

Depend on how you define notification when equipment fail. If you are referring to current and power monitoring. Ghl is much more advanced in that department. You can monitor the power of outlets ad an indication of equipment failure.

Can you elaborate a bit what you looking for?

There is nothing I know of that apex support and p3 or p4 do not support and more..

Here was the problem I had with Apex in dealing with this. A pump may stop working but could still be pulling power, this monitoring just the plug would not be a viable option to tell if there was an issue. This would be where the flow sensor is needed as a tie in with monitoring the plug. I unfortunately had this happen twice since I swapped over to the new Apex. The Flow detectors just wouldn’t work for my system, so I had to scrap them. The plug was programmed , if the pump failed do this and that... well that never worked. I came home to a full sump with an overflowing skimmer spraying the interior of my stand. This included optical sensors and various leak detectors that should have acted as they were properly programmed. As it turns out, only two of the 8 sensors that I have installed around my system actually work. ATO Res. low (1 optical out of 3) and the leak detector (1 out of 5) in my electronics compartment that is separated from the sump.

 

[Thales]

Actually, I meant to say if there is increased reliability. There seems to be a lot of anecdotal claims of increased reliability from people that have switched, but there are also a lot of happy Apex users. I have no opinion, myself. It would actually be way easier for me to move forward with Apex. I'm probably way overthinking this, but I keep reading about major calibration issues with Neptune probes. But people don't often post about their system that is working flawlessly.

i have two Apex systems working pretty flawlessly.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Rich - His failed after 2 months

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/apex-wifi-2016-new-not-so-much.609291/

 

[ShawnSaucier]

i have two Apex systems working pretty flawlessly.

Thales,
That’s great, and I wish I could have said the same thing. And again my issue has been on the customer/customer relations side and attitude towards faulty hardware. I may have just had the perfect storm of lemon boxes when all was bought. I don’t know. What I do know is when I am being talked down to or when issues are being circumvented.
I just had to erase a two paragraph rant on issues I’ve had with them. I need to just let it go, accept they got their money out of me, and I am again having to spend some more
But I hope for something that will work a bit better for my situation.

 

[Thales]

Thales,
That’s great, and I wish I could have said the same thing. And again my issue has been on the customer/customer relations side and attitude towards faulty hardware. I may have just had the perfect storm of lemon boxes when all was bought. I don’t know. What I do know is when I am being talked down to or when issues are being circumvented.
I just had to erase a two paragraph rant on issues I’ve had with them. I need to just let it go, accept they got their money out of me, and I am again having to spend some more
But I hope for something that will work a bit better for my situation.

Totally get that, I was responding to the person that said no one posts good stuff.
Sorry you have had a bad time. I used to search for the best company when I was treated badly by customer service. I had problems with sprint, so I dropped them. Have had the same kinds of problems from every other wireless carrier I have had. I have had all the delivery services screw up completely, yet you still see people saying that UPS sucks - they all suck and they are all great. I get you had a bad time, but don't think that trading companies will necessarily get you what you want because it is all trade offs. I have dealt with a few companies based in a different country from me...will likely never do that again. One of the reasons that I liked Neptune at years ago was not only are they US, but they are like an hour from me, so I could hop in the car if I had a problem (which I did once and they were very helpful).
I am not trying to get you to not change, just to point out that the team sportsing of most reef companies really doesn't seem to represent much, there is good and bad with all of them.
Now, Comcast/Xfinity - their customer service seems designed to make you get frustrated so they can keep charging you, so I ditched them. I no don't have cable at all. Cable was easier, but comcast was frustrating. Not sure who wins.

 

[MnFish1]

Here was the problem I had with Apex in dealing with this. A pump may stop working but could still be pulling power, this monitoring just the plug would not be a viable option to tell if there was an issue. This would be where the flow sensor is needed as a tie in with monitoring the plug. I unfortunately had this happen twice since I swapped over to the new Apex. The Flow detectors just wouldn’t work for my system, so I had to scrap them. The plug was programmed , if the pump failed do this and that... well that never worked. I came home to a full sump with an overflowing skimmer spraying the interior of my stand. This included optical sensors and various leak detectors that should have acted as they were properly programmed. As it turns out, only two of the 8 sensors that I have installed around my system actually work. ATO Res. low (1 optical out of 3) and the leak detector (1 out of 5) in my electronics compartment that is separated from the sump.

I had a similar experience. I was planning to use all of the sensors, etc - but my failure happened before I purchased - set up all of this 'equipment'.. I decided that the more 'automation' I had, the less I paid attention to my tank. I read a great article a while back which goes through all of the pitfalls with trying to automate a task - and then automate another task incase that task fails - and then another task to mitigate that, etc.

In the end - I kept my Apex - and I really have had no problem with it except when another chip.failed and caused another problem - but my suggestion - whether you get a new system or not - try to avoid complete automation - because there will always be failures(and it will probably be when you're just leaving for vacation). Good luck in whatever you choose

EDIT - BTW - please dont take my post the wrong way - I dont blame Neptune - because I think every company will have failures. If GHL becomes more popular you will see the same type of posts as the OP - except this time it will be against the GHL product. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. The blame to me goes to the tank keeper that decides to have an overly complicated set up. For example - rather than assume some alarm will go off when I'm out of town, I have a house sitter that watches the tanks in addition to the alarms etc - as a back up system.

 

[road_runner]

I had a similar experience. I was planning to use all of the sensors, etc - but my failure happened before I purchased - set up all of this 'equipment'.. I decided that the more 'automation' I had, the less I paid attention to my tank. I read a great article a while back which goes through all of the pitfalls with trying to automate a task - and then automate another task incase that task fails - and then another task to mitigate that, etc.

In the end - I kept my Apex - and I really have had no problem with it except when another chip.failed and caused another problem - but my suggestion - whether you get a new system or not - try to avoid complete automation - because there will always be failures(and it will probably be when you're just leaving for vacation). Good luck in whatever you choose

I had similar experince with things not working and almost causing disaster.
That's was one of the reasons I switched. Everything worked out the box from day one.
I also started reducing my dependencies on one company only.
I try to use native apps of the equipments when such exist. Like on Lights, Powerheads, Skimmer.ect.

 

[Adele]

(and it will probably be when you're just leaving for vacation).

It never fails. They say don't make any changes to your tank just before a vacay, but even if you abstain from doing so, something always goes catty-whampus on it own, just as you are walking out the door.

 

[Kyl]

The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence.

For me it's a combination of hardware, product development and company behaviour that is making me switch. 1 can span any company, but #2 and especially #3 are entirely set by how they want to operate, the corporate culture.

The old adage, vote with your wallet, is what I'm doing in my situation.

 

[MnFish1]

I try to use native apps of the equipments when such exist. Like on Lights, Powerheads, Skimmer.ect.

This has been my 'new strategy' as well

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Totally get that, I was responding to the person that said no one posts good stuff.
Sorry you have had a bad time. I used to search for the best company when I was treated badly by customer service. I had problems with sprint, so I dropped them. Have had the same kinds of problems from every other wireless carrier I have had. I have had all the delivery services screw up completely, yet you still see people saying that UPS sucks - they all suck and they are all great. I get you had a bad time, but don't think that trading companies will necessarily get you what you want because it is all trade offs. I have dealt with a few companies based in a different country from me...will likely never do that again. One of the reasons that I liked Neptune at years ago was not only are they US, but they are like an hour from me, so I could hop in the car if I had a problem (which I did once and they were very helpful).
I am not trying to get you to not change, just to point out that the team sportsing of most reef companies really doesn't seem to represent much, there is good and bad with all of them.
Now, Comcast/Xfinity - their customer service seems designed to make you get frustrated so they can keep charging you, so I ditched them. I no don't have cable at all. Cable was easier, but comcast was frustrating. Not sure who wins.

This is very spot on with how I feel. And a similar reason I went with Apex 2016 when I upgraded from the Classic. I did not go GHL at the time as their presence was minimal here in the US compared to Apex. And of course I would love to support a US company.
It may be a generational thing, but I miss the days of building to last, and customer appreciation.
I have no doubt that I may be kicking and rolling in a hornet’s nest by jumping with another company’s product. Also with the amount of time and possible impact it could have on my system. Replumbing, re wiring, all of it. I just need some stable hardware that will work as described.

 

[road_runner]

Part of the fun in this hobby for me is trying new things.
I tried and will keep trying diffrent things.
I do not buy the argument of do not switch because it might be worst, or do not switch because its company based in usa...many of us switched from digital aquatics to apex. I doubt I will see someone say I regret that switch..oh btw, digital aquatica are also in usa and am sure they are 2 hours away from someone

Do your research, compare specs, prices and features, understand what's the future road maps, try to filter out fanboy or biased reviews(this can be subjective I know) then decide...that's what's fun about this hobby..always evolving....
The company that take their customers for granted or in denial about customers problems will simply lose customers..end of story.

For the record, I was with DA, then with APEX now with GHL

If GHL will start messing around with quality or customer care, I will switch them In a heart beat as well I will have no problem going back to apex or whatever else if apex or others rendered better for my needs.
At the end of the day I am the customer and I have options to choose.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

I had a similar experience. I was planning to use all of the sensors, etc - but my failure happened before I purchased - set up all of this 'equipment'.. I decided that the more 'automation' I had, the less I paid attention to my tank. I read a great article a while back which goes through all of the pitfalls with trying to automate a task - and then automate another task incase that task fails - and then another task to mitigate that, etc.

In the end - I kept my Apex - and I really have had no problem with it except when another chip.failed and caused another problem - but my suggestion - whether you get a new system or not - try to avoid complete automation - because there will always be failures(and it will probably be when you're just leaving for vacation). Good luck in whatever you choose

EDIT - BTW - please dont take my post the wrong way - I dont blame Neptune - because I think every company will have failures. If GHL becomes more popular you will see the same type of posts as the OP - except this time it will be against the GHL product. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. The blame to me goes to the tank keeper that decides to have an overly complicated set up. For example - rather than assume some alarm will go off when I'm out of town, I have a house sitter that watches the tanks in addition to the alarms etc - as a back up system.

Again, I agree totally with your statements and honestly is exactly my thoughts on most of the controller help and issues. I also agree that having a large hold, or small, of the market will effect the amount of issues or displeasure is reported.
I am lucky that my wife is not afraid to get her hands wet. And for the most part, I just don’t want to watch my gear break down consistently.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

Also, this leads again to having more info on what is available out there. What is available in the “ Pro Sector” of the hobby that we don’t know about?

 

[porter_painter]

Sounds like a bad experience. That sucks. But, expecting to hear back personally from the owner of a company is a ridiculous expectation.

The owner of GHL posts on here and other forums quite frequently.

You forgot to add also that the base P4 controller also supports leak detectors, and flow sensors without any add on modules.

Minor correction - you do need a GHL leak detector module for the leak sensors. Each module supports 2 leak detectors.

 

[shred5]

I suspect the point was in relation to HP printers and how they use the consumables as a cash cow to milk the consumers. The fact that you have to test alk 8 times a day with the trident and can’t reduce that any further makes it seem like that’s the point.

Is that true? You cant set it for less. If So yea I agree.. That is ridiculous.

That is exactly what I was referring to. That and the 18 months $150 services make the cost of ownership crazy in my opinion. I believe I read that a 3 month supply of reagents is $45.00 if you run the minimum number of tests daily. If so that makes the minimum annual cost for reagents and services $255.00 plus shipping and taxes, so $300 a year. That is not including the original purchase price for a plastic toy. No Thank You! What am I supposed to do when it is sent in for servicing? Considering my experience with dosing using my classic apex, I would not trust it to control my ALK.

Wow. I figured it would be high but to high for me right now..

 

[MnFish1]

Is that true? You cant set it for less. If So yea I agree.. That is ridiculous.

Its not true - its 4x/day. The reason for it is to ensure the tubing remains clear. A secondary reason may be that they make money. But - it brings up a question - is there a cost projection out there for GHL for maintenance - and reagents - and are there a minimum number / maximum number of tests/day?

 

[NS Mike D]

I try to use native apps of the equipments when such exist. Like on Lights, Powerheads, Skimmer.ect.

This has been my 'new strategy' as well

same here. While I have an apex classic, I too rely on the app for my lights.

I find the product specific apps to more reliable and easier to trouble shoot. While I admire Neptunes ambition to be everything to every one ala Microsoft, IMO, while mixing it up might seem counter-intuitive in the attempt to simplify by centralizing with automation, I think the trade of gaining reliability and ease of troubleshooting worth it.

 

[Ditto]

Its not true - its 4x/day. The reason for it is to ensure the tubing remains clear. A secondary reason may be that they make money. But - it brings up a question - is there a cost projection out there for GHL for maintenance - and reagents - and are there a minimum number / maximum number of tests/day?

You can go from 1 to 24 tests per day.

I did a quick cost comparison in this thread:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...tor-vs-kh-guardian.604635/page-9#post-6124107

 

[Thales]

Also, this leads again to having more info on what is available out there. What is available in the “ Pro Sector” of the hobby that we don’t know about?

Not much at all. The electronics guy at CAS was astounded at what the Apex could do that his high end controls can’t. The ‘pro’ stuff is expensive, hard to install, harder to get parts for, and needs to be customized and then is a pain to troubleshoot because there are fewer people using it the way we use it. And, that stuff comes with its own share of ways to bork.