Fish immune to velvet? What to do....

Andrew D

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Hi everyone. I know I'm going to spark some controversy here, but hey aren't those the best threads? I need some help figuring out what to do.

I set up a 500G fish only in January, and things were going great for a few months. I moved my larger tangs over from my reef and had added some really nice angels (after long QT) when all of a sudden the fish started dying. I've had fish die in QT but never dealt with mass disease before so it took me a while to figure out what was happening. I don't have a microscope to confirm but I did a lot of reading on this forum and all the signs pointed to marine velvet. I know there are fish that survived such outbreaks with proper treatment, but things happened so quickly and my tank is so large that treatment was never really an option. So, sadly, I just watched all my fish die. Except for one.

Almost 3 months after the first fish death, my blue regal tang still lives. He is very skittish but otherwise appears healthy. No spots and typical velvet behaviour like hiding from light or swimming into the flow. He was (will explain) eating well and seems to have survived. Except everything I've read says that without treatment it is always fatal, and that some fish can live up to 6 months before they die. She's my wife's favourite fish so my wife is ecstatic, thinks she's some sort of miracle fish but I'm worried that she's a "typhoid mary" and anything I add will quick succumb to velvet.

So now for the controversy. If it is true that there is no cure/recovery without treatment (please someone expert confirm?) then I am essentially waiting for her to die. I've tried catching her but can't, and can't effectively treat a tank that size with enough confidence to add more fish. I stopped feeding her (my wife is ticked) but of course she's a tang and picks at the rocks all day long. I've now turned off the lights to stop algae growth but I know that will take a while. Is there anything else I can do? I spent a lot of money on the tank and it's heartbreaking to see it sitting there without fish and now light. I have a lot of other life in there - snails, urchins, serpent stars and of course dentrifying bacteria - so I don't really want to nuke it.

Am I right that no untreated fish can survive velvet? Is there anything anyone can think of that I haven't tried? Or do I just need to be more patient.

PS. Pictures below from happier days.
PPS. For those wondering how velvet got into the tank after long QT, best I can figure is that I was QT'ing multiple fish at the same time and I guess I wasn't careful enough to prevent water from one (tang that died) from making it's way into another that was near the end of QT.

thumbnail_IMG_3643.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3647.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3635.jpeg
 

Sharkbait19

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Were the fish showing the typical velvet symptoms - namely rapid breathing and swimming into flow?
It’s not impossible for some fish to survive, but more than likely it will eventually succumb to the infection. Even if not, it’s a carrier that can infect others.
Even if it means tearing the tank apart, I would try to catch it so it can be treated.
 

vetteguy53081

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Hi everyone. I know I'm going to spark some controversy here, but hey aren't those the best threads? I need some help figuring out what to do.

I set up a 500G fish only in January, and things were going great for a few months. I moved my larger tangs over from my reef and had added some really nice angels (after long QT) when all of a sudden the fish started dying. I've had fish die in QT but never dealt with mass disease before so it took me a while to figure out what was happening. I don't have a microscope to confirm but I did a lot of reading on this forum and all the signs pointed to marine velvet. I know there are fish that survived such outbreaks with proper treatment, but things happened so quickly and my tank is so large that treatment was never really an option. So, sadly, I just watched all my fish die. Except for one.

Almost 3 months after the first fish death, my blue regal tang still lives. He is very skittish but otherwise appears healthy. No spots and typical velvet behaviour like hiding from light or swimming into the flow. He was (will explain) eating well and seems to have survived. Except everything I've read says that without treatment it is always fatal, and that some fish can live up to 6 months before they die. She's my wife's favourite fish so my wife is ecstatic, thinks she's some sort of miracle fish but I'm worried that she's a "typhoid mary" and anything I add will quick succumb to velvet.

So now for the controversy. If it is true that there is no cure/recovery without treatment (please someone expert confirm?) then I am essentially waiting for her to die. I've tried catching her but can't, and can't effectively treat a tank that size with enough confidence to add more fish. I stopped feeding her (my wife is ticked) but of course she's a tang and picks at the rocks all day long. I've now turned off the lights to stop algae growth but I know that will take a while. Is there anything else I can do? I spent a lot of money on the tank and it's heartbreaking to see it sitting there without fish and now light. I have a lot of other life in there - snails, urchins, serpent stars and of course dentrifying bacteria - so I don't really want to nuke it.

Am I right that no untreated fish can survive velvet? Is there anything anyone can think of that I haven't tried? Or do I just need to be more patient.

PS. Pictures below from happier days.
PPS. For those wondering how velvet got into the tank after long QT, best I can figure is that I was QT'ing multiple fish at the same time and I guess I wasn't careful enough to prevent water from one (tang that died) from making it's way into another that was near the end of QT.

thumbnail_IMG_3643.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3647.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3635.jpeg
Pics are very distant but how did you conclude it was velvet? Velvet is a flagellate and often quick to cause issues once established. Some signs you will see IF velvet are fish will scratch body against hard objects, lethargic behavior, Loss of appetite and weight loss, Rapid, labored breathing, Fins clamped against the body, and typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium.
If fish cannot be caught, you can try reef safe Ruby Rally Pro which addresses velvet but will take 2-3 days to start working.
Typicical treatment choice is coppersafe or copper power at 2.25-2.5 therapeutic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit such as Hanna Brand (no api brand). Assure the medication you use states treats Oodinum.
 

Troylee

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I don’t think that’s true… even if people quarantine and observe fish for x amount of time it’s def not 6 months.. I’m sure lots of fish have survived velvet and in peoples tanks today and nobody even knows.. I know a guy locally who had a purple tang solely survive and just let it ride out and added more fish a couple months later without issue..
 

Jason_MrFrags

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I don't see any corals, so if all you have are snails and a urchin. Consider removing them and keeping in a small tank. And put the Fish system through hypo for 35+ days.

or catching fish/treating them, and leave display fallow.
 

Jay Hemdal

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IDK if fish can survive velvet untreated, if they can, it is pretty rare.

We do know that acquired immunity from marine ich is short-term, about 6 months or so. I would presume that it would be similar for velvet.

Visual diagnosis of aquarium fish diseases is always problematic. For example, if you diagnosed this as velvet, but it was flukes, then having some fish survive and be chronic carriers is fairly common.

Jay
 

MnFish1

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Hi everyone. I know I'm going to spark some controversy here, but hey aren't those the best threads? I need some help figuring out what to do.

I set up a 500G fish only in January, and things were going great for a few months. I moved my larger tangs over from my reef and had added some really nice angels (after long QT) when all of a sudden the fish started dying. I've had fish die in QT but never dealt with mass disease before so it took me a while to figure out what was happening. I don't have a microscope to confirm but I did a lot of reading on this forum and all the signs pointed to marine velvet. I know there are fish that survived such outbreaks with proper treatment, but things happened so quickly and my tank is so large that treatment was never really an option. So, sadly, I just watched all my fish die. Except for one.

Almost 3 months after the first fish death, my blue regal tang still lives. He is very skittish but otherwise appears healthy. No spots and typical velvet behaviour like hiding from light or swimming into the flow. He was (will explain) eating well and seems to have survived. Except everything I've read says that without treatment it is always fatal, and that some fish can live up to 6 months before they die. She's my wife's favourite fish so my wife is ecstatic, thinks she's some sort of miracle fish but I'm worried that she's a "typhoid mary" and anything I add will quick succumb to velvet.

So now for the controversy. If it is true that there is no cure/recovery without treatment (please someone expert confirm?) then I am essentially waiting for her to die. I've tried catching her but can't, and can't effectively treat a tank that size with enough confidence to add more fish. I stopped feeding her (my wife is ticked) but of course she's a tang and picks at the rocks all day long. I've now turned off the lights to stop algae growth but I know that will take a while. Is there anything else I can do? I spent a lot of money on the tank and it's heartbreaking to see it sitting there without fish and now light. I have a lot of other life in there - snails, urchins, serpent stars and of course dentrifying bacteria - so I don't really want to nuke it.

Am I right that no untreated fish can survive velvet? Is there anything anyone can think of that I haven't tried? Or do I just need to be more patient.

PS. Pictures below from happier days.
PPS. For those wondering how velvet got into the tank after long QT, best I can figure is that I was QT'ing multiple fish at the same time and I guess I wasn't careful enough to prevent water from one (tang that died) from making it's way into another that was near the end of QT.

thumbnail_IMG_3643.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3647.jpeg thumbnail_IMG_3635.jpeg
Am going to reply without reading the other answers - Yes - Not every fish dies from Velvet (assuming it was velvet that killed the others). In other words, you're right fish can survive. Whether that fish is carrying velvet is another question (i.e. - have you tried to add more fish to the tank - and they did ok)?
 

Idech

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Why would did you stop feeding your fish ? Starving it to death is not ethical. Even if you are eager to have new fish in the tank, you can’t get rid of it like that and just go on.

Find it a new home with someone who will give it a chance if you don’t want it anymore.
 

MnFish1

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OK I read the rest of the answers and agree - the problem with any tank 'infestation' - is that unlike the ocean - the parasites are concentrated when they 'hatch' - leading to rapid increases in parasite numbers leading to deaths. In the wild - fish probably have at least some immunity to velvet.

@Jay Hemdal do you agree with this comment - that the 6 month immunity is listed like that because they stopped the experiment at 6 months. At 6 months it looked like the immunity is waning - however - I have a feeling we don't really know how long immunity lasts? (Can the rare fish that survives velvet in a tank carry it - and re-infect others?)

@vetteguy53081 I'm not sure I would treat the fish 'now' - But I'm curious as to the rationale for doing so - because I initially thought that would be the solution.
 
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MnFish1

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stopped feeding her (my wife is ticked) but of course she's a tang and picks at the rocks all day long. I've now turned off the lights to stop algae growth but I know that will take a while. Is there anything else I can do? I spent a lot of money on the tank and it's heartbreaking to see it sitting there without fish and now light. I have a lot of other life in there - snails, urchins, serpent stars and of course dentrifying bacteria - so I don't really want to nuke it.
IMHO - This is not correct. Don't turn off the lights, don't stop feeding the fish.

There is no reason from a velvet scenario to stop feeding or turning off the lights.
 

Lavey29

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I had a few fish survive a serious brook outbreak in my tank early on which killed everything else. Moved them to temp tank so main tank was fallow. Then moved them back in. This was 2 years ago almost and I've not had another outbreak of brook. All fish I have purchased over 1.5 years now from my LFS have survived.
 

vetteguy53081

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Often when velvet appears, without treatment its too late but can also depend on the age of the disease and health of the given fish. The fish that survive usually are ones with thick mucus such as dragonettes, clowns and many NON-SCALED fish. Often with velvet, gills are infected and without treatment likely wont result in a positive outcome
 

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