For all the China box haters out there. You might want to see this.
- Thread starter bobman
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dbrewsky
Active Member
So Here's my last input on this: we as consumers in the aquarium industry set the price points for manufacturers. If we were willing to pay $5000 dollars for a light that was completely designed, sourced, and assembled here in the USA, the manufacturers would be more than happy to develop that product at that price point. Same thing happens with the Chinese black boxes,etc. To meet the market demand for the black boxes, work has to be outsourced and cheaper materials must be used. An overwhelming amount of the hobbyists in the industry simply do not want to shell out big bucks for aquarium gear and the companies that outfit this market know this very well and cater to these consumers.
Most people also don't consider that the high end reef segment of this market is tiny in comparison to the more hobby level saltwater,freshwater,pond,etc that truly drives the industry. If we want to support American made equipment, we have to drive the market in that direction and understand we will have to pay significantly more for those products to reflect this.
And I'm done!
Most people also don't consider that the high end reef segment of this market is tiny in comparison to the more hobby level saltwater,freshwater,pond,etc that truly drives the industry. If we want to support American made equipment, we have to drive the market in that direction and understand we will have to pay significantly more for those products to reflect this.
And I'm done!
michaelrc51
Active Member
Absolutely correct IMO.
But, this way of thinking for consumers is and has been driving markets the other way for a long time.
I work in the security and industry and have seen first hand the difference in manufacturing quality and design and honestly it is completely backwards from what it was when I started out 20 years ago. Nobody cares about the quality or length of use, it's all about that sale. IMO it's sad and a direct reflection on the state of affairs here in the US. I pride myself on my workmanship and ability to do what others can't or won't at the highest level available.
I buy higher end because of what I believe to be a better product. There are definitely rebadged foreign products out there that people try to sell for double the price.
Buy what you want, it's your money. My only suggestion is to be informed which is how I base my opinions and who gets my money. Believe it or not, your decision of what product to buy based solely on price does have an affect on the industry.
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bobman
Well-Known Member
Feel free to add more then it is an open discussion. Those that want scientific proof have missed the point of a discussion that was about people opinions and thoughts. To get scientific proof means I would have to buy these over priced fixtures and all the equipment to test it which is a lot of money. If I was not going to buy the overpriced fixture to hang over my reef why would I buy it along with equipment to test it just for a reef2reef discussion?
I do agree with this and have no problem opening my wallet to get American made products. Especially if it kept jobs here. Sadly though that is never the case anymore. American (and other countries) companies usually design a product here and sell it for a nice large price tag but once they have a market for there product they all get greedy and outsource the product so they can make it cheaper but the price sadly never reflects it as the price will remain high since consumers will pay that price thinking the product is American made still which in fact it almost never is. So you are not keeping jobs here because the simple fact is its was no longer made here. Someone may have put a few screws in and boxed it up but thats just not even a fraction of the jobs that were needed to make the product in the first place. Those jobs all went over seas.
Goodgreef
Community Member
Cars are really no different. Most of the component parts are made in Japan and China and shipped to American automakers. Basically the frame is built here and the parts assembled here (Or canada or mexico). Buying aquarium items expecting superior quality because it is "made" in Germany, US, Italy (hah I always laugh at that one), is like insisting on buying only headphones from Liverpool England because that's where the Beatles are from.
Do any of the Chinese led fixture manufactures use the Cree type"Leds"???
Goodgreef
Community Member
Absolutely. Especially since a large portion of CREE are actually made in China since around 2011. EcoSun is one such brand. They're probably made just down the hall from Cree in Shengzen China.
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bobman
Well-Known Member
Most of them do now. Some of the older versions use epistar like mars aqua which is what I have. Mine have been running well for sometime but I have noticed on 1 of my fixtures some of the diodes are going dim however I can really say much as I got a couple used and have no idea how old they actually are. I have had them for a little over a year so it is what it is. On a good note I can buy all new diodes from epistar for all 4 of my fixtures for about 40 bucks and can pick the led color I wish to use. Mars aqua have 4700K or something I dont think I like a great deal will be replaceing them with more blue and purple 420NM diodes.
jamessreeftank
Community Member
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I have a Chinese led on my sps tank and my corals grow faster and are brighter then a friends tank who's running gen 3 radions
Some 10 year old working 16 plus hours a day, who built yours?
Here is a true story.
I bought a 120w LED and imported it from China about 6 years ago with just white and blue LED's. I was told by a lighting "experts" on a UK forum the following.
!/ they won't grow coral.
2/Corals will have no/poor colour esp SPS.
3/ they are dangerous.
4/They are not CE (Uk standard) certified.
5/ they are poorly built.
6/they won't last long.
In my reply.
1/they did. I showed a pic of a frag and again a month later showing growth
2/they did. All my SPS had colourful growth tips as shown with a blue tipped acro.
3/they weren't
4/they were and I posted the CE certificates up to prove it after I got the Chinese company to send them on.
5/I took pic's of the inside of the unit and 2 separate electricians confirmed they were very well built with all cables heat shielded and to a very good standard. BTW the UK has the highest standard of electrical safety regs in the world.
6/ They are still going strong 6 years after I sold them on to a mate who grows SPS with colour like weeds.
Not once did he say he was wrong he just went quite no doubt sulking but why?
Pic's of his tank taken a while ago now, his tank is even more stuffed with the growth of his SPS and is regulary fragging them.
I bought a 120w LED and imported it from China about 6 years ago with just white and blue LED's. I was told by a lighting "experts" on a UK forum the following.
!/ they won't grow coral.
2/Corals will have no/poor colour esp SPS.
3/ they are dangerous.
4/They are not CE (Uk standard) certified.
5/ they are poorly built.
6/they won't last long.
In my reply.
1/they did. I showed a pic of a frag and again a month later showing growth
2/they did. All my SPS had colourful growth tips as shown with a blue tipped acro.
3/they weren't
4/they were and I posted the CE certificates up to prove it after I got the Chinese company to send them on.
5/I took pic's of the inside of the unit and 2 separate electricians confirmed they were very well built with all cables heat shielded and to a very good standard. BTW the UK has the highest standard of electrical safety regs in the world.
6/ They are still going strong 6 years after I sold them on to a mate who grows SPS with colour like weeds.
Not once did he say he was wrong he just went quite no doubt sulking but why?
Pic's of his tank taken a while ago now, his tank is even more stuffed with the growth of his SPS and is regulary fragging them.
NeuroticAquatics
Valuable Member
I've had black boxes over my Reef for three years now. Same unit, grows everything from zoas to LPS to SPS. I've considered going with the expensive brands but I just can't rationalize the additional expense. Mine may not produce the same growth rates but I'm not in a race or out to frag everything and sell it.
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
I have to say I was skeptical at first about buying my Mars Aquas. I did research about them for over a year before I pulled the trigger, mostly driven by not wanting to spend $200+ on T5 ATI bulbs every 8 months! Over the years I must have spent a fortune on T5 bulbs!
Me and my corals are happy I bought them. At first I got as much or more growth with them, as opposed to the T5's. I did mod them by replacing some diodes to mimic the SB reeflights layout and since I've seen a explosive growth spurt, improved color and excellent polyp extension. And no more $200+ out of pocket every 8 months!
Now if you want to buy the "high end" led fixtures out there ponder this....... I spent $269 on three 165w Mars Aquas and shipped free. Awesome right out of the box. Granted it only has a white and blue channels that are independently dimmable. No Wifi, no timers.......gimmicks.
Now one "high end" fixture costs upwards to $800. One fixture! To cover my tank I need three. That's $2400!
(3)$2400-(3)$269=$2131 saved.
Now $2400/$269 =8.9 (almost 9)
I could buy 24 Mars Aquas units for the cost of 3 "high end" led fixtures!
24! Insane!
Me and my corals are happy I bought them. At first I got as much or more growth with them, as opposed to the T5's. I did mod them by replacing some diodes to mimic the SB reeflights layout and since I've seen a explosive growth spurt, improved color and excellent polyp extension. And no more $200+ out of pocket every 8 months!
Now if you want to buy the "high end" led fixtures out there ponder this....... I spent $269 on three 165w Mars Aquas and shipped free. Awesome right out of the box. Granted it only has a white and blue channels that are independently dimmable. No Wifi, no timers.......gimmicks.
Now one "high end" fixture costs upwards to $800. One fixture! To cover my tank I need three. That's $2400!
(3)$2400-(3)$269=$2131 saved.
Now $2400/$269 =8.9 (almost 9)
I could buy 24 Mars Aquas units for the cost of 3 "high end" led fixtures!
24! Insane!
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Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
ATI makes the best T5 bulb out there, hands down. I've used them exclusively for 15 years. My old T5 fixture had eight 39w bulbs costing me at retail, $25 dollars a bulb. $3000 in 15 years.
Easy to justify, I would put their fixture performance up against any T5 fixture on the market. But that's pretty much common knowledge as it has already been tested.
Ok, it always comes down to this . People who overpay , get robbed, taken advantage of. HAVE to justify their over priced items not to you, but to them selves. ALWAYS the same story !
I am now going to order some no name L.E.D. lights made in China
I am now going to order some no name L.E.D. lights made in China
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