Frogfish & Corals?

DCJ · Sep 23, 2023

Hi forum!

I'm considering getting a frogfish for this weirdly-shaped ex-shop 26 gallon tank that I have

The plan is to keep the frogfish in the tank, and then move on to nems and clowns when he passes (whenever that may be, I'm in no rush) - mostly because I couldn't decide on one or the other, but the idea is that the tank will have matured (I'm hoping he'll survive more than a year) and be able to support a nem after him, so I get the best of both worlds.

I've been researching (@lion king your threads have been SO helpful, thank you for all your hard work) and plan on setting up his tank after I set up a brackish tank with mollies, so he'll have a supply of live food.

I want to keep him with a lot of corals. I thought mostly softies, considering I eventually want to have a nem in the tank and don't want to pop it in with LPS.

HOWEVER, I've seen that they might do better in cold temperatures, as low as 70F/21C, and I wanted to know if corals would even do well in those temps.

During my research, I've seen that softies do better than other corals, excepting maybe xenia that tends to die back.

I wondered if anyone else who keeps frogfish at lower temps has come up with a compromised balance, or has had success with corals at a lower temp?

Sorry for rambling, let me know if anymore info is needed
Thank you forum!

lion king · Sep 23, 2023

The low temperature thing is really only a theory of mine, considering they do live at lower temps in the wild and there are other species like the Catalina goby, certain varieties of jawfish, and certain varieties of trunkfish which have been proven to live much longer in lower temps. You could still keep them at the lower end of tropical and most if not all corals are going to be just fine around 72 degrees. I really don't have any case studies of lower temps giving definite results, I have one friend keeping her tank at 70 for over 5 years now, she is also very diligent about every aspect of their care. I'm sure you've seen this thread

So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take...

www.reef2reef.com

DCJ · Sep 23, 2023

lion king said:
The low temperature thing is really only a theory of mine, considering they do live at lower temps in the wild and there are other species like the Catalina goby, certain varieties of jawfish, and certain varieties of trunkfish which have been proven to live much longer in lower temps. You could still keep them at the lower end of tropical and most if not all corals are going to be just fine around 72 degrees. I really don't have any case studies of lower temps giving definite results, I have one friend keeping her tank at 70 for over 5 years now, she is also very diligent about every aspect of their care. I'm sure you've seen this thread

So you want a frog fish; I call them anglers

I've kept a few, my first going back 25 years. These are very difficult fish to keep and I am still very frustrated as to the success in keeping these guys long term. I do have some information I would like to share for those interested. Be forewarned, they are not for everyone and do take...

www.reef2reef.com

I have, but thank you for linking it.

Given your wealth of experience, and the common sense aspect of that theory, that I'll give it a try. It sounds sensible! I can do 72F, for sure, I don't want to make things TOO difficult.

Thank you for taking the time to comment, and for all your write-ups. I'm shy about pulling the trigger on this, but I've got time, got to set up the freshwater tank, plant it, adjust it to brackish (so the plants survive) and then go from there with the mollies.

I want to do indian glass fish with knight gobies at the bottom, but I want to establish the mollies first, and then monitor to make sure the knight gobies aren't eating them all. O_O

DCJ · Sep 28, 2023

@lion king Hi! I wondered if I could bother you to pick your brains about feeding other FW/brackish species to frogfish - specifically, halfbeaks? I'm planning to feed him from my brackish tank, and was going to do mollies, but I know halfbeaks are also livebearers and can also go brackish.

I might end up just doing a dedicated tank for guppies, actually, but I'd love your opinion on the above, if you have the time, if not, don't worry
Thank you!

lion king · Sep 28, 2023

What some don't know, is that guppies are actually brackish fish. Mollies and guppies come from the same family of fishes that some of the fish come from that are part of the lionfish natural diet, anglers are very similar in needs and care. Most importantly, I suspect the mollies and guppies have a very similar fat profile to the fish eaten in the wild. I have used these two in my feeding regimen for more than 20 years, keeping many species that others found impossible, and keeping many close to their max lifespan in the wild. I have also encouraged many others to include these two into their feeding regimen and they have also had success that had previously eluded them. Halfbeaks are not of the same family, I am unaware of their potential nutritional value, primarily their fat profile. I've even known hobbyist rebuke my advice towards mollies/guppies and would breed cardinals, an easy marine fish to breed, but would also find their endeavors unsuccessful in the long run, again I suspect an incorrect fat profile.

You may also find some of these other species may not acclimate into the angler's tank easily. Mollies will immediately start swimming with no issue, guppies can have some trouble, but other breeds may just float up to the top because of the density of the salt water. I have used and recommended platys in a pinch, but these would very difficult to get to an angler. Sometimes you do have help them out by what I call herding, using a feeding stick to push the prey into a position for the angler to catch them, They are a true ambush predator, they can't swim to capture their prey, they can just post up and wait. I had this one painted angler that would climb to the highest point in the tank and shake and circle his lure, trying to get the fish at the top of tank to come down and get eaten, so funny.

The truth about FATS

I remember one the first things I learned about fish when I started this hobby; was the differences in carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores. Lions, eels, anglers, etc. are carnivores, among many other species. Carnivores need a dominant protein and fat diet with minimal carbs. Frankly I'm a bit...

www.reef2reef.com

DCJ · Sep 28, 2023

@lion king I am so, so grateful for you taking the time to help me out. I honestly appreciate it, thank you so much.

I read that, it was really helpful! I saw what you said about feeding marine to marine possibly allowing diseases, etc, to cross over, and the unsuitability of FW fish, but that brackish was a sweet spot for that

I was initially going to use mollies because I think even adult guppies might be eaten in what I want to set up as a brackish tank, but in the even that it proves insufficient to provide enough food for the frogfish (I'm wondering if the indian glass fish and knight gobies might eat too many fry, even if I establish a breeding set before I add the gobies), I thought I'd do guppies in a brackish tank, just because I could use a smaller tank for them.

I was considering keepig halfbeaks with the glass fish and knight gobies anyway, but knowing they are livebearers, I thought that might just be another option for the 47 bowfront brackish tank.

Might be a good excuse to do some experimenting, but I don't think I'm the right person to try that, so I'll probably see how I go with the black mollies, and set up a brackish guppy tank if the mollies don't work out.

Again, I appreciate that you took some time out of your day to respond to me, I don't take your help for granted