HELP! MY SPS ARE PALING AND I DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO
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oohnoo
Active Member
Try Lowes or Depot for the Spectracide® Stump Remover Granules or even your local nursery. I got mine via Amazon in 2 days
I can order, but was looking for some instant, weekend, gratification.
-Matt
mcarroll
10K Club member
I haven't seen anything for DIY phosphate. I think you should be able to get some Monopotassium Phosphate online, but again that's an order away.
Try calling some local plant nurseries and ask if they have any form of potassium phosphate.
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
If you find it, as a word of caution, look up the SDS sheet on it to see if it states the % of purity and impurities in it. If you can find 100% pure, better yet.
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
I removed all but a small clump of my macro and reduced the 24 hr light schedule to 12 hours. I also put the skimmer on a timer to operate for 6 hours at night. Now I have a great excuse to get some new fish Ive been wanting too!
Well, its been a whole 24hrs and my nitrates arent up to 5 yet so Im going to start dosing nitrate immediately....
Just kidding, I am however fighting the impatient urge for instant results
I know this post is old but your situation last year is identical to what I am going threw and would love to know how your nutrients are now... I have struggled to get detectable nitrates for the past month. Dumping 4 large loads of food in the tank per day and having 20 fish still did not do it for me. I've considered putting some raw shrimp in the sump to add some dead waste but decided against it. I know what comes out of my system and know If I completely remove my nutrient export all i'll have is a sump full of detritus and large fat bristleworms.
My current system is getting reading of undetectable or 0.02PPM for Nitrates and PO are 0.05 PPM. I ordered some seachem nitrogen based on this thread and want to know where I should start on dosing. System is 130 gallons.
Flippers4pups
Fins up since 1993
So, what's the deal with us low nitrates folks? What is using them up so badly that we are actually dosing nutrients?
I don't have a sump or skimmer and have to dose nitrates every few days. I feed frozen, UNTHAWED, mysis until my two fish mouths are gaping, and still have to dose.
Where does it go?
I don't have a sump or skimmer and have to dose nitrates every few days. I feed frozen, UNTHAWED, mysis until my two fish mouths are gaping, and still have to dose.
Where does it go?
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
I dont know man too much enphasis on low nutrients and improvement in aquascaping, flow, skimming, LR, Barebottom, etc is making excess nutrients disappear... Ive been overfeeding and came home to filthy nasty tank with some algae growth...Keep in mind for 5 months I've had very minimal algae growth. PPl say overfeed to increase your nitrates but Indirectly I am just increasing my Phosphates which is fueling some algae. I am considering removing the mud and marinepure but want to keep these in their for security reasons - Imagine if something dies in my tank if I am on vacation at least my bio load can handle the waste.
IMO the only true way to get your nutrients up naturally is if you have good amount of deadspots which accumulate detritus. I don't have this and rather not have this b/c it will lead to one looking for quick GFO, vodka, vinegar, pellet fixes..
mcarroll
10K Club member
Did we already PM about this or am I thinking of another issue?
Nope...well maybe in the very short term...but raises other nutrient levels – not N – in the longer term.
;Spitoutdummy Thankfully.
Don't be afraid of 0.10 ppm for PO4 and 5-10 ppm of NO3.
Get some Flourish Phosphorus too.
Seachem has a calculator on their website as well as a set of apps on the IOS App store, but the instructions on the bottle are pretty clear as well as correct.
Corals and everything else in the tank that's growing uses N, P and C in roughly the Redfield ratio...which sounds fancy....think of it like a recipe....to build life use:
- around 10 parts phosphorus for every 1 part iron
- around 14 parts nitrogen for every 1 part phosphorus
- around 8 parts carbon for every 1 part nitrogen
But...
Denitrification is the "deal with the low nitrates".
Denitrifying bacteria work on reducing the available NO3 load (thanks, Nitrifying bacteria!!) down to N2 gas all the time – 24/7/365.
This denitrification leaves other non-N nutrients behind in the tank, so you get an imbalanced environment: often lots of P and other nutrients, but depleted in N.
An environment rich in nutrients, but depleted in N, is a perfect niche for a Diazotroph like cyanobacteria that can fix usable nitrogen from N2 gas in the water. Got cyano? ;Watching
BTW, cyano isn't such a bad thing in most tanks because of this – it might even be healthy. It's a constant N-resource for anything that can eat it....thinking especially about microbes here....and the tank generally when the cells break down.
Common cyano's can apparent fix N and CO2....and as if that weren't enough, at ultra-low phosphate levels they can also use complex P molecules that would be unavailable to most organisms.
This was a good read:
Phosphonate utilization by the globally important marine diazotroph Trichodesmium
Did we already PM about this or am I thinking of another issue?
Nope...well maybe in the very short term...but raises other nutrient levels – not N – in the longer term.
;Spitoutdummy Thankfully.
Don't be afraid of 0.10 ppm for PO4 and 5-10 ppm of NO3.
Get some Flourish Phosphorus too.
Seachem has a calculator on their website as well as a set of apps on the IOS App store, but the instructions on the bottle are pretty clear as well as correct.
Corals and everything else in the tank that's growing uses N, P and C in roughly the Redfield ratio...which sounds fancy....think of it like a recipe....to build life use:
Forget the specific numbers – the point is to show the large amounts of N and C that can go into building (or maintaining) life. The actual ratios can be much higher, depending on the critter and local conditions.
- around 10 parts phosphorus for every 1 part iron
- around 14 parts nitrogen for every 1 part phosphorus
- around 8 parts carbon for every 1 part nitrogen
But...
Denitrification is the "deal with the low nitrates".
Denitrifying bacteria work on reducing the available NO3 load (thanks, Nitrifying bacteria!!) down to N2 gas all the time – 24/7/365.
This denitrification leaves other non-N nutrients behind in the tank, so you get an imbalanced environment: often lots of P and other nutrients, but depleted in N.
An environment rich in nutrients, but depleted in N, is a perfect niche for a Diazotroph like cyanobacteria that can fix usable nitrogen from N2 gas in the water. Got cyano? ;Watching
BTW, cyano isn't such a bad thing in most tanks because of this – it might even be healthy. It's a constant N-resource for anything that can eat it....thinking especially about microbes here....and the tank generally when the cells break down.
Common cyano's can apparent fix N and CO2....and as if that weren't enough, at ultra-low phosphate levels they can also use complex P molecules that would be unavailable to most organisms.
This was a good read:
Phosphonate utilization by the globally important marine diazotroph Trichodesmium
Wow, what a post! Very informative, wish I could double like it
Back when I struggled with nitrates, I also had a sand bed, not a deep sand bed, just a dirty one. I also had a lot of junky rocks.
Now that I went BB and only have a few, nicer, rocks, my nutrients need support. I'm guessing that going BB and removing the crummy rocks also removed the places for detritus to collect?
I've got one sprig of algae, a poor little caulerpa sprout that is just happy to be here.
Back in the day, I'd have fistfulls of hair algae, bryopsis, you name it!
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
Anyone with low nutrient issues using marinepure and refugium mud?
I am considering removing the marinepure 8X4" or Miracle mud from refugium? These 2 colonize most of the bacteria to nitrate but if the marinepure is removing nitrates then it could be a problem. Tank has about 1/2Lb per gallon rock.
I am considering removing the marinepure 8X4" or Miracle mud from refugium? These 2 colonize most of the bacteria to nitrate but if the marinepure is removing nitrates then it could be a problem. Tank has about 1/2Lb per gallon rock.
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
It depends on your system.. If your running ULN tank and supplementing with the other elements you will have success. However, no ones tank is truly undetectable on nitrate and phosphates. Its just being used up faster then we can test it.. How do we leave enough in the tank so corals don't suffer and algae take hold is the balancing act. Nutrient in and nutrient export IMO is the most difficult part to get right because we have no formula.. Everyones tank has success at different rates.
Ideally I believe 2PPM -5PPM on Nitrate is good and 0.05-.08 is good for Phosphates.
mcarroll
10K Club member
We're talking about systems that have problems. No problems? This advice isn't for you.
(For anyone trying to clone your success, I would suggest that the apparent lack of dissolved nutrients is not what's driving the great results in your tank, but more of a coincidence. Everything else you're doing is most likely the key.
)
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
..So I have been overfeeding last few days in hopes of increasing my nitrates before I got my Seachem nitrogen (which BTW arrived leaking and 80% empty). Yesterday the tank smelled so bad that my wife let me know 100X "it smells". And this is not the first time she has told me it smells....I told her she has sensitive nose;Yawn . I have to say the smell was very this time... I came to find out that the excess nutrients probably resulting in extra bacteria that is causing the water to release a foul odor.. I mean I even opened all the windows and it still stank.... I tested my nitrates and its still undetectable..
Anyways, this lets me know that the stuff just does not settle in the tank and my bio filter can handle tons of waste.. The sand has no detritus that comes out when I stir it.
To fix the problem I increased the return pump to 100%, increase sump flow, changed the filter socks, and stirred the sand - The smell almost instantly went away - Or perhaps it was the candles and airfresher that we picked up...
If my tank is doing fine at undetectable nitrates how long should I take to increase it to 5PPm
Anyways, this lets me know that the stuff just does not settle in the tank and my bio filter can handle tons of waste.. The sand has no detritus that comes out when I stir it.
To fix the problem I increased the return pump to 100%, increase sump flow, changed the filter socks, and stirred the sand - The smell almost instantly went away - Or perhaps it was the candles and airfresher that we picked up...
If my tank is doing fine at undetectable nitrates how long should I take to increase it to 5PPm
mcarroll
10K Club member
It's hard to say for sure how long, but I'd be surprised if it was longer than a week or so.
Have you already read through this?
A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)
Ashish Patel
2500 Club Member
Soon as its time to do something new its a learning curve regardless of how many times I have read this. I don't recall seeing any instructions on dosing the seachem products (only the garden products)
I tested my nitrates again its still clear on the nitrate - tanks gotten a little foggy I suspect bacteria bloom or just particle floating around from removing the filter socks for few days and discontinuing skimmer use for few days.
I will dose tomorrow 5ML (40gallons) and test, if its still at 0 then I will add another 5ML .. If it remains 0 then i'll just dose the on Sunday.
mcarroll
10K Club member
Your right about the learning curve with anything new!
Time to re-engage the beginner's mind! The calc on the link is for the DIY products, but the ideas on the article are the same....and more-or-less apply to phosphate and its related products as well.
You're on the right track with dosing, BTW, and more than likely there would be nothing wrong with continuing with patience as-is until you finally register a number on the test kit OR until you start seeing some results.
I also think that if you're able to test frequently, there's nothing to lose by increasing the dose by 1 mL every time until you register a number. Then hold the quantity steady between doses, or even back off to the original dose if levels are still rising.
Once you have a healthy, well-fed microbial community in action (takes at least a few weeks at minimum and will ideally include some green algae growth) they will be very good at cycling and retaining N and P nutrients so there ought to be less need for dosing as things progress. This implies your regular nutrient inputs to the tank – fish or coral food – are both sufficient AND consistent enough though. If you don't already use a fish feeder, I'd recommend one. Eheim makes a nice one and a feeding platform/ring to keep mess and waste close to zero.
Seachem garden products should be one and the same as what we're talking about.....Flourish Phosphate and Flourish Nitrate. Seachem has their own calculator apps on the IOS app store and Google Play.
Their site seems to be inaccessible for me at the moment, but they have some calculator info here too: Dose Calculators
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