Hobby grade “quarantine” probably kills more fish than it saves.

[anthonygf]

This is likely to be an unpopular opinion but here it goes:

It is my sincere belief that “hobby grade” quarantine causes more harm than good.

The fish you just got is stressed from travel, probably stressed from being caught in the wild recently and instead of dropping it into your large display tank with plenty of rocks to hide and established chemistry, pods and tank mates you drop it into a tiny tank with freshly made saltwater, possibly no biological filter and a tiny piece of PVC…

I truly believe that more fish have been killed by this process than saved.

If the fish looks healthy I just drop it straight into the display, preferably at dusk, have had zero issues with this method in the last 16 years.

I believe one of the old school reefers was also in this camp, can’t remember his name at this time.

Any one else agree with this?

With 40 years of fresh and 6 years reefing I have never quarantined or medicated any of my fish, haven't lost any to disease yet. Never seen ick in all this time. I hear alot of people loosing fish when medicating just in case in quarantine. Quarantine and observation alone is good practice if you have several thousands of $ in fish to protect.

 

[TheDragonsReef]

Ive never lost a fish in qt. But i have had velvet and ich show up making me glad i do qt.

People definitely rush qt or dont fully understand best practice but to say that it kills more than it saves is just not true.

My qt tank runs like a fowlr. Its always running with atleast one fish in it, live rock, cycled, has its own skimmer, etc. Its ready to go whenever i need it.

New fish never get immediate treatment. I let them settle in and i make sure they're eating for atleast a week. Then i do copper for 3-4 weeks, water change and add cuprisorb after. Then 2 rounds of prazi. Observation for another 3 weeks. Then into the tank

 

[Chessmanmark]

Three months ago two fish in my display died covered in ich. My 18 year old Cinnamon Clownfish and a PBT I had for 10 years that I bought from another hobbyist who had it for many years.
The other fish didn’t show signs of ich and as I add younger fish they don’t either.

Perhaps ich in a tank doesn’t always necessitate a fallow period?

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

There's a difference between a hospital tank and qt tank. This has been lost.
I've been sw fish tank keeping since 2008-2009.
I practice the same method as paulB.
-d

 

[vtecintegra]

It's like my 70 year old mother. Has never worn a seat belt. Says it would trap her and she would burn to death. Would rather be thrown from the vehicle. So far her philosophy is holding up. Never been in an accident. But if it ever happens, I expect she will change her mind.

Over many years, I don't think I've been in a LFS where I haven't seen dead fish or disease in the system. I learned the hard way in the beginning when I was less knowledgable. I had a number of losses to velvet, brook, and uronema. Losses now are no where near what they were back in the day before I started quarantining.

 

[DaddyFish]

I would be willing to speculate that those of you closer to the west coast of USA have less issues with transport stress than those of us on the east coast. I'm pretty sure that fish we purchase at LFS have been through at least three more transfers than those at your LFS.

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

I think if the QT thing had more losses then survivors, it wouldn’t be as popular as it is here.

This is EXACTLY the thing I'm getting at. We have zero data and I have a strong feeling its killing more fish than its saving. "We all do it so it must be right" is exactly the crap i'm going after.

 

[anthonygf]

We need to get a petco powder blue into Paul’s tank for tracking.

I purchased a YT from Petco 5 years ago, was sickly, fins shredded and skinny. Was just a baby. Well I had some words with management of the poor condition of the tang and let me have the YT for I think it was $10. Well I took him home and acclimated of course and just put him in my tank with a bunch of cheap damsels, flame hawk and a dragonet all in a 46 gallon tank. He is fat and happy today and is now boss of my 75 gallon, with two 3 stripe damsels, flame hawk, filefish, two clowns and a BG damsel. I did not quarantine of medicate.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

This is EXACTLY the thing I'm getting at. We have zero data and I have a strong feeling its killing more fish than its saving. "We all do it so it must be right" is exactly the crap i'm going after.

We have threads full of data. Years of it

 

[anthonygf]

It's like my 70 year old mother. Has never worn a seat belt. Says it would trap her and she would burn to death. Would rather be thrown from the vehicle. So far her philosophy is holding up. Never been in an accident. But if it ever happens, I expect she will change her mind.

Over many years, I don't think I've been in a LFS where I haven't seen dead fish or disease in the system. I learned the hard way in the beginning when I was less knowledgable. I had a number of losses to velvet, brook, and uronema. Losses now are no where near what they were back in the day before I started quarantining.

I had a buddy around 40 years ago got into an accident and burnt up in his car because he was wearing a seat belt, or more than likely the accident caused the seatbelt to jam up and not release. There's pros and cons to seat belt use, mostly pros. Not wearing a seat belt you are more likely to loose control of your vehicle when in a collision or get throne out onto the freeway.

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

We have threads full of data. Years of it

Please show me the thread randomizing fish to either QT or straight to display and comparing outcomes. There are none.

 

[HB AL]

I don't worry about it I don't quarantine.

 

[NowGlazeIT]

Please show me the thread randomizing fish to either QT or straight to display and comparing outcomes. There are none.

Threads of owners curing active diseases from ich to Brooke. Fish on deaths door coming back to life. I bet you use antibiotics when you need them, fish need them too sometimes. Not every fish lives disease free in the wild, Mother Nature can be unforgiving.

 

[jmichaelh7]

Healthy fish fed good will be good enough

 

[Tamberav]

This is likely to be an unpopular opinion but here it goes:

It is my sincere belief that “hobby grade” quarantine causes more harm than good.

The fish you just got is stressed from travel, probably stressed from being caught in the wild recently and instead of dropping it into your large display tank with plenty of rocks to hide and established chemistry, pods and tank mates you drop it into a tiny tank with freshly made saltwater, possibly no biological filter and a tiny piece of PVC…

I truly believe that more fish have been killed by this process than saved.

If the fish looks healthy I just drop it straight into the display, preferably at dusk, have had zero issues with this method in the last 16 years.

I believe one of the old school reefers was also in this camp, can’t remember his name at this time.

Any one else agree with this?

If they drop the fish in and it doesn't work and they lose all their fish to velvet. Are you going to pay for it? If not, then it is totally up to them if they want to risk their existing fish.

A person could just use a bigger quarantine tank, cycle it with biospira and use bricks and plastic plants. I personally don't think small tanks with PVC are best practice and QT could be improved upon very simply.

I do not see the harm of freshly made saltwater. People do 100% water changes on picos with inhabitants more sensitive and they do very well.

Paul used to use copper pennies. Also did you read his book? I bought it and read it all... the procedes go to MS too. He said he would set up a tank totally different if he started brand new today. It involved treating fish with copper (not for 30 days though, maybe a week if memory serves right).

Instead of just telling people "it is fine for me so don't QT". You should write an article of what type of tanks can skip QT and how to pick out healthy fish and which suppliers are best. I mean most of the big name no QT people have done that and it's not just... set up tank and plop em in. Because your post has little to no information on how to be successful and repeat the process for people who get their fish from different sources, have different ages of tanks, different skill levels of picking out healthy fish, ect.

 

[cocoReefer]

Good discussion.
More data would be great.
I have to look hard in the mirror when i think about this subject.
Ive been in the “old tank/live rock, cleaner shrimp/gobi, mud, bacteria, potentially cheap/lazy, dump them into the display etc. boat for over a decade. Ive had great results. But when i really look at it over the years, i have been lucky. Almost all my fish have been bought from reputed lfs, and i got to hand pick ones id been watching. Once my trusted store closed and i started ordering from online (Long shipping, potentialy fresh wild caught.... all that) im at about 60% survival rate doing it that way. Never lost any fish ive already had, but id never forgive myself, and there is apparently that major possibility.
So, the way i see it now is, if im willing to loose money and life of poor critters, im going to setup a healthy qt and try harder.
I am not a newby, bit of an old hat at this point. Would go for a fowlr type qt/hospital and do my best of course.
But i still see the possibility of more fish overall in the trade being lost to poor qt. I have worked in an lfs and it happens even on the professional side, and alot with inexperienced hobbyists.
Data would be good, but no one will want to honestly report on it imo.... Sharing info to those who want it is the best we can do, no matter what the methods.
I had myself convinced qt was pointless for me.
I aim to change my ways though. Whats one more tank setup? Just more fun and a deeper way to enjoy the hobby

 

[Tamberav]

Just blows my mind how many people link Paul's thread but it seems to clear to me they never bothered to buy and read his book.

I have a lot of respect for him and all his experience. I still QT my fish and probably don't agree on every point he shares but I learned a lot from Paul's book whether it is feeding/nutrition or white worm cultures or how things "used to be done" (bleaching coral skeletons, dosing pennies, ect) and what some people may find shocking is I found out how to QT fish (in a better/less stressful way) from him.

It is on Amazon. The Avant-Garde Marine Aquarist: A 60-Year history of Fish Keeping

​

 

[Tamberav]

Here is the QT example by Paul. I went out and bought clay bricks for my QT from home depot. They indeed... worked wonderful and very very cheap. Probably cheaper then bigger PVC fittings. I also bought fake silk plants for around 2 dollars each. I got them on LA mark down but Petsmart has 6" 2 dollar silk plants as well.

Using Bricks in a QT or Hospital Tank

Paul B submitted a new Article: The piece with barnacles on the left is a brick. Photo courtesy of @Paul B, ©2019, All Rights Reserved. Note from the Editor: Our forum member @Paul B is highly respected in our community because of his vast experience and his willingness to share with others...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[blaxsun]

This is a great idea right up until you get Ich or worse yet Velvet and kill off you entire tank in a matter of days. Its good you've been lucky but I would call it just that LUCK. Sooner or later this line of thinking will get you and kill your fish.

Well, I had velvet ride into my tank on a supposedly quarantined fish - so it just illustrates that trying to maintain a rigid and isolated reef environment doesn’t always succeed.

This isn’t to say that I agree or disagree entirely with either method, only that eventually (despite whatever methods you choose and employ) the stark reality is that something is going to eventually be introduced into your display tank.

I’ve subsequently adopted the premise that this is going to happen again, and planned accordingly (oversized UV sterilizer, reef-safe medication, etc.)

 

[Saltandfresh]

This is likely to be an unpopular opinion but here it goes:

It is my sincere belief that “hobby grade” quarantine causes more harm than good.

The fish you just got is stressed from travel, probably stressed from being caught in the wild recently and instead of dropping it into your large display tank with plenty of rocks to hide and established chemistry, pods and tank mates you drop it into a tiny tank with freshly made saltwater, possibly no biological filter and a tiny piece of PVC…

I truly believe that more fish have been killed by this process than saved.

If the fish looks healthy I just drop it straight into the display, preferably at dusk, have had zero issues with this method in the last 16 years.

I believe one of the old school reefers was also in this camp, can’t remember his name at this time.

Any one else agree with this?

Completely agree. Also, I’m too lazy to set up a quarantine tank.