How to decrease NO3 and increase PO4?

[Gabbone]

Hi all,

I am having a little issue balancing my no3/po4 level in a MIXED REEF 3-month 30g tank. (No SPS, just Leathers, LPS, fish, inverts).

My tank parameters:

Temp: 77 F
PH: 8.0/8.3
SG: 1.025
NO3: 15ppm. After 25% WC I went down to 10ppm (I am currently dosing 2ml nopox a day even tho on the instructions they state: "NO3PO4-X is recommended as a complete carbon source for use with carbon-based denitrators. Do not use NO3PO4-X in conjunction with sulphur based de-nitrators or phosphate and nitrate removers as the different methods for nitrate and phosphate reduction will cause interference").
PO4: 0.02 (I am using Clear FX Pro All-In-One Filtration Media but I am considering switching to Blue Life Clear FX Reef. The first one removes No3 and Po4, the second just No3). Does this interfere with nopox?
dkh: 11.0 (I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt which has high dkh. Should I switch to Red Sea Sea Salt which has a dkh of 8.0? I am still reading about the correlation between high/low dkh and high nutrient/low nutrient systems. Any recommendations? I got a red flag because my hammers corals are thriving but the torches are not fully open.
CA: 450ppm
Mag: 1400

Because of my high dkh, I believe I should aim for NO3: 2ppm / PO4: 0.08-0.12 ?



Maybe @Randy Holmes-Farley can save me this time! I read all of your articles on po4 and no3.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

High alk means you need higher nutrients, not lower. N of 10 is low for LPS IMO. I would aim for N of 20 and phos of 0.05- 0.2.

Stop the NoPOx. What other filtration do you have besides the clear fx? I would stop using the FX too...

Why are you trying to keep nutrients so low in the first place?

 

[Gabbone]

Hi and thanks for answering!

Apparently 2ml Nopox is not reducing my No3 but keeps it stable at 10ppm.

Last week I had No3 at 10ppm and after 7 days, before WC it was at 15. (I was dosing 1ml nopox), then after 25% WC, back to 10ppm

On the instruction, they said that for my system (Mixed Reef), I should aim for lower no3 and higher po4 as you can see in the chart.

Right now I am on No3 10ppm and Po4 0.02.

Apart from Clear Fx, I have a protein skimmer running wet and in the last couple of days, I have been feeding very lightly.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

On the instruction, they said that for my system (Mixed Reef), I should aim for lower no3 and higher po4 as you can see in the chart.

I would not take advice from their "instructions". If there's no outward reason to lower your nutrients (which are already low), don't add a product "just because".

 

[Gabbone]

Then, I'll stop Nopox. Should I switch from FX Pro All-In-One Filtration Media to Clear FX Reef? (The second doesn't bring Po4 down).

I agree that I should aim for 0.1 po4.

What do you suggest actually? Any other recommendations? Maybe 11dkh is too much considering I don't have any sps?

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

Then, I'll stop Nopox. Should I switch from FX Pro All-In-One Filtration Media to Clear FX Reef? (The second doesn't bring Po4 down).

I agree that I should aim for 0.1 po4.

What do you suggest actually? Any other recommendations? Maybe 11dkh is too much considering I don't have any sps?

I hear so much and remember so little I always have questions. Someone will clear this up

I would lower the alk and consider a form of carbon dosing if only to increase the bacteria load. It is said by carbon dosing some bacteria are high in PO4 and the corals consume some ?

Also, I would lower the Mag to NSW. It is said high mag binds up carbonate ?
About 28-minutes in:




Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[Gabbone]

Thanks for the video! I am gonna watch it right now. Keep in mind that to low my alk, I should switch salt.

 

[Lavey29]

High alk and low nutrients is a recipe for coral trouble. You want 10 to 20 nitrates and .05 to .1 phosphate. My tank is currently 25 nitrates .25 phosphate and 8.4DKH

 

[Gabbone]

I just the video, it's very interesting and useful!

After seeing it, here's my takeaway:

1. Dkh 11.0 is probably not optimal for my tank and I probably need to switch from Coral Pro Salt to Red Sea Salt (Dkh around 8.0).
2. I need more PO4, between 0.1-0.2. (I will feed more with frozen food, phytoplankton and coral ab+).
3. My actual nitrates are fine (10ppm), I can afford to increase to 15ppm. Therefore, I am going to switch FX Pro All-In-One with Clear FX Reef and cut the NoPox dosing from 2ml to 0.5-1.0ml daily. It's still useful to give food to the good bacteria.

Any more recommendations?

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

I just the video, it's very interesting and useful!

After seeing it, here's my takeaway:

1. Dkh 11.0 is probably not optimal for my tank and I probably need to switch from Coral Pro Salt to Red Sea Salt (Dkh around 8.0).
2. I need more PO4, between 0.1-0.2. (I will feed more with frozen food, phytoplankton and coral ab+).
3. My actual nitrates are fine (10ppm), I can afford to increase to 15ppm. Therefore, I am going to switch FX Pro All-In-One with Clear FX Reef and cut the NoPox dosing from 2ml to 0.5-1.0ml daily. It's still useful to give food to the good bacteria.

Any more recommendations?

Salt mix - just mix with both high and low alk salt mix until the high alk salt is gone. No real hurry here.

PO4 - most recommend at least 0.03 and up to 0.08

Nitrates in your tank I would work on keeping below 30.


FYI - "Tidal Gardens" Than has said his PO4 was as high as 2.5 and his nitrates were as high as 50 ? Usually not recommended.


Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

I just the video, it's very interesting and useful!

After seeing it, here's my takeaway:

1. Dkh 11.0 is probably not optimal for my tank and I probably need to switch from Coral Pro Salt to Red Sea Salt (Dkh around 8.0).
2. I need more PO4, between 0.1-0.2. (I will feed more with frozen food, phytoplankton and coral ab+).
3. My actual nitrates are fine (10ppm), I can afford to increase to 15ppm. Therefore, I am going to switch FX Pro All-In-One with Clear FX Reef and cut the NoPox dosing from 2ml to 0.5-1.0ml daily. It's still useful to give food to the good bacteria.

Any more recommendations?

"Tidal Gardens" - Than testing PO4 0.37 - about 6:10



I would not chase numbers here. I think most keep PO4 low to help in algae control even though corals consume PO4.

Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[Gabbone]

Thank you again!

 

[Mikeltee]

Did you start with live rock and live sand? If not, it's going to take some time for your rock to stabilize and you shouldn't be removing anything. NoPox removes Phosphates, not Nitrates. If you don't have SPS there is no reason to have an ULNS. ULNS was a fad. Most people that attempted it got dinos and quit the hobby. Not many people run this anymore and the ones that do are SPS masters. I highly suggest that you maintain a .1/10 system to have the nest chance at avoiding dinos. SPS is fine under these conditions as well. I'd suggest figuring out a feeding schedule to get you close to this. Feeding Reef Roids a couple times a week will increase your Phosphates. If they get too high, switch to benereef. You won't see any kind of stability for quite a long time if your rock and sand isn't stable. 3 months is way too young. NoPox in a young system is a surefire way to get dinos which is good for us because there's a good chance you put your system in the classifieds for pennies on the dollar.

 

[Gabbone]

Live sand and dry rock.

When you talk 1/10 system you mean 10ppm no3 / 0.1 po4 ?

 

[Lavey29]

Live sand and dry rock.

When you talk 1/10 system you mean 10ppm no3 / 0.1 po4 ?

Yes, it's really a 1: 100 ratio phosphate/nitrates

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

Live sand and dry rock.

When you talk 1/10 system you mean 10ppm no3 / 0.1 po4 ?

Try for 1/30 - gives you breathing room to learn from the members in time
Yes, 300 to 1

16:1 --> 10.5:1 --> 100:1


Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

PO4 - most recommend at least 0.03 and up to 0.08

No, "most" do not.

Nitrates in your tank I would work on keeping below 30.

This is a fine level but many have nitrates much higher with no issues.

FYI - "Tidal Gardens" Than has said his PO4 was as high as 2.5 and his nitrates were as high as 50 ? Usually not recommended.

His phos are high, but nitrates of 50 are fine in a lot of tanks.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I highly suggest that you maintain a .1/10 system to have the nest chance at avoiding dinos

Here we go again... Specific ratios are not important. Related to phosphate drops, dinos happen when a system that usually has phosphates quickly bottoms out and the microbe balance shifts enough for dinos to take hold.
(But there are many types of dinos and a very new tank may get the kind that are often part of the "algae cycle" and that go away without intervention...)

16:1 --> 10.5:1 --> 100:1

Please forget you ever heard of Redfield!! These ratios (possibly) apply to deep water algae nutrient consumption... Nothing to do with our tanks.

 

[BigMonkeyBrain]

No, "most" do not.

This is a fine level but many have nitrates much higher with no issues.

His phos are high, but nitrates of 50 are fine in a lot of tanks.

I knew 0.08 was low - for the rest of this -- our OP has not picked his numbers yet !

The OP is not Neo but he has skills and has demonstrated he can think on his own !

Redfield Ratio -- just quoting the trend.

Probably happens !

“So let it be written, so let it be done”

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Redfield Ratio -- just quoting the trend

No, you're quoting outdated, incorrect data...