I have ich, confused about my next move

[coronarex]

I’m Pretty sure my tank has either ich or marine velvet. I was careless and purchase fish and added them directly to my tank without quarantining them. A couple days ago I notice White spots on one of my clowns and as the days passed the number of white spots has increased. Another clown displays no white spots whatsoever. These are my only fish. I have done a ton of research and am simply confused about what to do next. My Display tank is 30 gallon. I just purchased 5 gallon tank that I will use as a quarantine tank. I know in order to kill the ich my display tank has to go without fish for 76 days. How should I go about setting up my quarantine tank. My concerned is seeding the tank. I have many small pieces of live rock in the back compartment of my display tank. Can I use this even though it is infested with ich. Should I avoid adding anything from my display tank other than the two clowns? Should I just do water changes every other day? I would not like to do this because of a hassle. I will also be treating the fish with a copper supplement. Is there one in particular that you guys recommend. From now on, I will quarantine all fish before adding them to my display tank.

 

[Crabs McJones]

I’m Pretty sure my tank has either ich or marine velvet. I was careless and purchase fish and added them directly to my tank without quarantining them. A couple days ago I notice White spots on one of my clowns and as the days passed the number of white spots has increased. Another clown displays no white spots whatsoever. These are my only fish. I have done a ton of research and am simply confused about what to do next. My Display tank is 30 gallon. I just purchased 5 gallon tank that I will use as a quarantine tank. I know in order to kill the ich my display tank has to go without fish for 76 days. How should I go about setting up my quarantine tank. My concerned is seeding the tank. I have many small pieces of live rock in the back compartment of my display tank. Can I use this even though it is infested with ich. Should I avoid adding anything from my display tank other than the two clowns? Should I just do water changes every other day? I would not like to do this because of a hassle. I will also be treating the fish with a copper supplement. Is there one in particular that you guys recommend. From now on, I will quarantine all fish before adding them to my display tank.

Do you have any pictures just for verification purposes? if it is ich it sounds like you've got it pretty much figured out. Get the fish into qt, treat with copper, and let the display tank sit fallow for 76 days. I've never had to copper treat, but perhaps @4FordFamily @Humblefish #reefsquad can help with dosing copper. You can also do a couple freshwater dips if the fish get really badly covered to help release some of the parasites. And remember, always, always, always quarantine before adding to your display. The amount of time will vary, but I always go for a solid 6 weeks. Hope this helps

 

[Josh Kraft]

Check out these two threads.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

At this point, you won't seed your QT with something from your DT. I would just use bacteria in a bottle (should be mentioned in one of the threads above).

 

[Centurio]

Whew! Based on your title I thought you meant that the organism had morphed and now infected human hosts!

 

[ihavecrabs]

Hey @coronarex

Agree 100% on leaving your display fishless.

Can you post some pics so the community can help with an ich or velvet ID? What types of fish? Just the clowns?

Ich, you have many options and a little time; however, velvet you do not. Velvet kills quickly and will require you to get them into therapeutic copper very very quickly.
Ich, you can take your time getting to therapeutic copper levels or opt for TTM instead of medications.

As far as a filter, I use a simple hob power filter (like a tetra power filter) and filter floss as the media since it does not absorb copper. I seed it with a live bacteria such as DrTim's One and Only Live Bacteria

It is also recommended to get a Seachem's Ammonia badge since these will work for a year and won't give false readings using copper.

Additional reading can be found here. I recommend the stickies by @melypr1985 and @Humblefish

Good luck!

#ReefSquad

 

[Maritimer]

I use Coppersafe, which is a _chelated_ copper product. Many folks use Cupramine, which is an _ionic_ form of copper. In either case, you'll want some form of copper test kit to ensure that you reach and maintain therapeutic levels. For Coppersafe and other chelated coppers, use the API kit, and keep your copper level between 1.5 and 2.0ppm. For Cupramine and other ionic coppers, use the Seachem or Salifert kits, and keep your levels at 0.35-0.5ppm.

You generally want to add copper slowly, over a period of several days to almost a week - but in the case of velvet, should proceed with all deliberate speed - 48 hours is about as long as you want to take to reach therapeutic levels.

For ammonia, you can add a small HOB powerfilter, _remove_any_carbon_ and use only the mechanical filtration floss / sponge. Add Bio-Spira or Dr. Tim's One-and-only bacteria in a bottle to start a biofilter. (If you choose to use the rock from your display filter, keep in mind that it's likely to absorb some of the copper you add to the tank, and cannot be used in the display again afterwards.) Get a Seachem ammonia "badge" to keep an eye on that parameter, as liquid tests will read incorrectly with copper in the water.

One more link to read for increased understanding: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

~Bruce

 

[coronarex]

Thank you so much for the help. I appreciate all the links but I have honestly done nothing but read and watch youtube vids on the topic, as I am snowed in(EAST COAST). If MV kills in 24 hours then I certainly do not have that. Either way, I have something. These are the best pics I could get but the little guy is covered. Despite that he continues to be extremely active. I mentioned adding the rock bc it made sense as I will need something to cycle the ammonia. And I am adding the ich infested fish so why not add the rock? If the only real way to kill ich is with fallow then doesnt this mean my QT tank will have ich despite dosing with meds? I purchased a 5 g by TopFin, it has a filter pad with what looks like carbon pellets inside. Should I toss this and go with a cheap sponge filter and use a airstone, as the carbon could hold onto medication. I am starting a cart on Amazon. In it i have Dr.Tims one and only and an ammonia badge. As far as the copper, I will choose one that you guys recommend. I think my best bet would be to dose half the recommended amount and just monitor the fish?

Hey @coronarex

Agree 100% on leaving your display fishless.

Can you post some pics so the community can help with an ich or velvet ID? What types of fish? Just the clowns?

Ich, you have many options and a little time; however, velvet you do not. Velvet kills quickly and will require you to get them into therapeutic copper very very quickly.
Ich, you can take your time getting to therapeutic copper levels or opt for TTM instead of medications.

As far as a filter, I use a simple hob power filter (like a tetra power filter) and filter floss as the media since it does not absorb copper. I seed it with a live bacteria such as DrTim's One and Only Live Bacteria

It is also recommended to get a Seachem's Ammonia badge since these will work for a year and won't give false readings using copper.

Additional reading can be found here. I recommend the stickies by @melypr1985 and @Humblefish

Good luck!

#ReefSquad

 

[ihavecrabs]

Thank you so much for the help. I appreciate all the links but I have honestly done nothing but read and watch youtube vids on the topic, as I am snowed in(EAST COAST). If MV kills in 24 hours then I certainly do not have that. Either way, I have something. These are the best pics I could get but the little guy is covered. Despite that he continues to be extremely active. I mentioned adding the rock bc it made sense as I will need something to cycle the ammonia. And I am adding the ich infested fish so why not add the rock? If the only real way to kill ich is with fallow then doesnt this mean my QT tank will have ich despite dosing with meds? I purchased a 5 g by TopFin, it has a filter pad with what looks like carbon pellets inside. Should I toss this and go with a cheap sponge filter and use a airstone, as the carbon could hold onto medication. I am starting a cart on Amazon. In it i have Dr.Tims one and only and an ammonia badge. As far as the copper, I will choose one that you guys recommend. I think my best bet would be to dose half the recommended amount and just monitor the fish?

I'll try to answer your questions in order

1. MV doesn't sound likely if you have noticed this for a while. It doesn't always kill in 24 hours but will certainly do so in a matter of days once it becomes visible. @melypr1985 @Maritimer correct me if I'm mistaken here.
2. Adding rock is a good way to get bacteria to process ammonia. The live rock you add will have Ich likely on it, but it will die if you maintain therapeutic levels of copper. Only downside with this is you will NOT be able to reuse the rock in a display tank as the copper will leach out. Filter floss and Live bacteria is a replacement for the live rock and will work
3. Ditch the cabon filter pad. This will only pull the medication out
4. Sponge filter will work (same as the filter floss). Live bacteria will seed it well if you end up buying it.
5. Airstone is definitely recommended to maintain o2 levels.

Specifically on which type of copper, I'd defer to @Maritimer 's post above. You can choose either of those options and their respective test kits. The test kits are required to ensure you reach and maintain therapeutic levels. If not, the treatment will not work.

Also, dose copper and bring it up slowly. Raising copper to fast can kill the fish. I'll look up the timeframe here in a sec and let you know. Raise it over 5-7 days. I pasted the quote below where the information resides!

• Some people have difficulty treating with copper because they raise the level too quickly. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 5-7 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Some take even longer to reach therapeutic levels and that is certainly a wise course of action (unless dealing with a fast killer such as Marine Velvet Disease.)
• Almost all fish will show signs of appetite suppression whilst treating with copper. But so long as the fish is eating - even just a little - it will be OK for the 30 day treatment period. Now, if a fish stops eating altogether that's a problem. If this happens, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until the fish resumes eating. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you'll know you've encountered a "copper sensitive" fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead.
• Alternative treatments for ich include: Chloroquine phosphate, tank transfer method, or hyposalinity. The only other treatment for velvet is Chloroquine phosphate. Links to more detailed info on these treatments can be found here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/treatment-options-index.247573/

FYI article: How copper works, and why it sometimes doesn't

Last item.. Don't use any ammonia remover while medicating with copper. It turns the copper lethal. Water changes to reduce ammonia if it becomes an issue. New salt-water will need to be dosed with copper and tested.

 

[Big G]

Coppersafe is great and the therapeutic level 1.75-2.0 gives you a bit more wiggle room than Cupramine. One reason not to add rock into the QT is that the rock will absorb some of the copper making it a little difficult to maintain therapeutic levels as the rock's absorption rate changes.

 

[Josh Kraft]

The meds kill the ich in QT, but you cannot dose your DT because of the rock. The rock will absorb the meds. So in your DT, you let ich live its life cycle (I think you are two days short, and it is actually 78 days), and it will be out of your tank completely. Ich has nothing to host itself on, so it eventually dies off.

If you put the rock in your QT, it is trash when you are done. If you keep it in your DT, the good bacteria can continue to live on the rock while you run fallow.

If you don't have much invested in rock / sand, you could put the fish in QT and medicate them, and sterilize your tank and equipment / replace all your rock / sand to cut down the time your DT is out of commission.

 

[coronarex]

I'll try to answer your questions in order

1. MV doesn't sound likely if you have noticed this for a while. It doesn't always kill in 24 hours but will certainly do so in a matter of days once it becomes visible. @melypr1985 @Maritimer correct me if I'm mistaken here.
2. Adding rock is a good way to get bacteria to process ammonia. The live rock you add will have Ich likely on it, but it will die if you maintain therapeutic levels of copper. Only downside with this is you will NOT be able to reuse the rock in a display tank as the copper will leach out. Filter floss and Live bacteria is a replacement for the live rock and will work
3. Ditch the cabon filter pad. This will only pull the medication out
4. Sponge filter will work (same as the filter floss). Live bacteria will seed it well if you end up buying it.
5. Airstone is definitely recommended to maintain o2 levels.

Specifically on which type of copper, I'd defer to @Maritimer 's post above. You can choose either of those options and their respective test kits. The test kits are required to ensure you reach and maintain therapeutic levels. If not, the treatment will not work.

Also, dose copper and bring it up slowly. Raising copper to fast can kill the fish. I'll look up the timeframe here in a sec and let you know. Raise it over 5-7 days. I pasted the quote below where the information resides!




Last item.. Don't use any ammonia remover while medicating with copper. It turns the copper lethal. Water changes to reduce ammonia if it becomes an issue. New salt-water will need to be dosed with copper and tested.

Thank you so much. I would totally buy you all a beer!!! haha
I may or may not add a couple small pieces of live rock just to be safe. I decide to, ill be sure to toss them.
As far as the copper, I will most likely go with the cheapest of the ones you guys recommend.

 

[coronarex]

The meds kill the ich in QT, but you cannot dose your DT because of the rock. The rock will absorb the meds. So in your DT, you let ich live its life cycle (I think you are two days short, and it is actually 78 days), and it will be out of your tank completely. Ich has nothing to host itself on, so it eventually dies off.

If you put the rock in your QT, it is trash when you are done. If you keep it in your DT, the good bacteria can continue to live on the rock while you run fallow.

If you don't have much invested in rock / sand, you could put the fish in QT and medicate them, and sterilize your tank and equipment / replace all your rock / sand to cut down the time your DT is out of commission.

Thanks for the correction on the fallow period. This couldve all been avoided if I had just been patient. I will not make the same mistake twice, beeleeedattttt

 

[Josh Kraft]

Thanks for the correction on the fallow period. This couldve all been avoided if I had just been patient. I will not make the same mistake twice, beeleeedattttt

Don't worry. I learned the hard way too. I now have a QT setup for when I am ready to add new fish.

 

[4FordFamily]

The fact that the white spots have increased notably over a couple days screams velvet to me. Can you post some photos?

As said, highly recommend 30 days in copper in quarantine and 76 days fallow. Velvet is a fast killer you’re operating on borrowed time already. I wouldn’t hesitate to set up that QT, friend!

- someone that’s learned the hard way many times

 

[Blockwood15]

Just recently learned the hard way lost half my fish to marine velvet. I used cupramine to treat. Whatever copper treatment u use i would recommend to get the the same brands copper test kit to make sure ur copper levels stay within therapeutic ranges. I added some of my DT rock in my quarantine and had to continually add cupramine as the rock absorbed the copper. Would also have carbon on had just in case u need to remove the copper quickly.

 

[Josh Kraft]

Just recently learned the hard way lost half my fish to marine velvet. I used cupramine to treat. Whatever copper treatment u use i would recommend to get the the same brands copper test kit to make sure ur copper levels stay within therapeutic ranges. I added some of my DT rock in my quarantine and had to continually add cupramine as the rock absorbed the copper. Would also have carbon on had just in case u need to remove the copper quickly.

Because of the rock absorbing the copper, I highly recommend you don't use rock like you said you wanted to. It makes it a bit harder and requires constant monitoring of copper levels rather than just needing to dose more at water changes.

 

[Idoc]

please try to get better close-up, clear pics of possible. I'm only looking at these pics on a phone screen, but the whiteness on the clowns looked like it was greater around the head region. You may have Brooklynella on your hands rather than ich. Clowns are extremely susceptible to Brooklynella. If there is question, then you may want to treat for this as well...MetroPlex 125mg (1 scoop) every other day for 10 days...it can be used at the same time as you are ramping up your copper treatment, actually. Just use an airstone in the QT to keep the oxygen levels up in the water during treatment. But clearer pics and closer up would be best to make this diagnosis.

 

[4FordFamily]

I agree, avoid rock in the quarantine. Dose dr tims or bio spira to help cycle. Add some sort of sponge for the bacteria to colonize.

 

[coronarex]

please try to get better close-up, clear pics of possible. I'm only looking at these pics on a phone screen, but the whiteness on the clowns looked like it was greater around the head region. You may have Brooklynella on your hands rather than ich. Clowns are extremely susceptible to Brooklynella. If there is question, then you may want to treat for this as well...MetroPlex 125mg (1 scoop) every other day for 10 days...it can be used at the same time as you are ramping up your copper treatment, actually. Just use an airstone in the QT to keep the oxygen levels up in the water during treatment. But clearer pics and closer up would be best to make this diagnosis.

Hello. Since I have posted this, the clowns are completely and I mean completely showing zero signs at all of anything. The one in particular seems to be in even better health than before. Not sure what to do. The QT tank is up and running but I have yet to add them and go fallow.

 

[coronarex]

I agree, avoid rock in the quarantine. Dose dr tims or bio spira to help cycle. Add some sort of sponge for the bacteria to colonize.

THank you. IN the Qt tank I have a sponge filter and am using dr.tims