Ich treatment and fallow tank

[Jennifish]

So I managed to make 2 fish traps and caught out my pinstripe wrasse and royal gramma so my tank is now fallow and my fish are in a treatment tub. Being in the UK we only have seachem cupramine really available - so this is what I have.

Because I have a wrasse being treated I want to get to the therapeutic dose over 7 days or so, this says 0.5 on the bottle, is this what im shooting for? I have a copper test (seachem) to carry out daily.

Now for the tank - I read that I need to make sure there’s no anoxic environments or the Ich May go dormant and come back - I have a big baster to blow out my Rocks as best I can, but I also have an external canister which is full of seachem matrix - the whole idea of that being that the middle of that media is anoxic to break down nitrate - so my question is if I take my matrix and blast it in highly oxygenated tank water will that be enough to blast through any trophonts? Or will dosing h2O2 increase the oxygen enough to do this? Are the trophonts too big to make it to the centre of matrix?

Any advice much appreciated -

Also any clarification on best fallow length? If I up to 27c (currently at 25c) will it reduce it any?

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[threebuoys]

You should ramp up the copper much more quickly than 7 days. Copper has no benefit until target dose is achieved. Perhaps dose 6 or 12 hours apart if you are concerned. 7 days will give too big a foothold to the parasite and will cause your fish to suffer. The fish's defenses will weaken during that time.

The use of matrix doesn't factor into the equation for copper treatment. Keep your cupramine at 0.5 for 30 days and keep the tank fallow for 6 - 8 weeks. If you sense the wrasse may not be handling the copper, you could revert to 3 weeks, but that might add more risk for unsuccessful treatment. I have personally QT'd wrasse at full strength for the full 30 days with no problems. Be sure to put a bowl of play sand or something similar (non-calcareous) in the QT for the wrasse to bury in. That will help keep him happy.

 

[Jennifish]

The matrix is in the fallow tank, I’m concerned the anoxic nature of the large media will allow trophonts to go dormant and render the fallow period useless as they’ll just reanimate once the fish go back in…

The fish are currently parasite free, but in the treatment tank (in between lifecycles) so they should be ok over 7 days or so. I’ve also not seen my wrasse bury himself before… is it a species that do that? I have plenty of aquascaping sand that should be inert to add as a substrate if it does…

 

[threebuoys]

Trophonts exist on the fishes body. That's the white spots you see. When the trophont departs the fishes body, it becomes a protomont which in less than a day forms a sticky cyst that attaches to hard surfaces. This then becomes the tomont which is where the 6 to 8 weeks comes into play. This incubation period can last from 3 to 72 days. When they hatch, they become theronts which is the vulnerable stage. This is when copper as well as UV are able to kill the parasite. If the theront doesn't attach to a fish within about 48 hours, it dies naturally.

So, I don't think the matrix is a problem because I don't think the protomonts sticky cysts will get deeply sucked in., and if they did and subsequent hatched, the theront woul dnot escape to be able to attach to a fish.

 

[Jennifish]

I read on here though that in anoxic environments the tomont would go dormant and reanimate at any point there was enough oxygen - so I’m wondering if I need to get them all non dormant if they are currently to ensure they die off?

 

[Tired]

You could always just sacrifice the bacteria in the media. Soak it in RODI for a few days to kill everything on it, then pop it back in the canister.

 

[MnFish1]

I read on here though that in anoxic environments the tomont would go dormant and reanimate at any point there was enough oxygen - so I’m wondering if I need to get them all non dormant if they are currently to ensure they die off?

That was a theoretical issue - if you are worried, you can extend the fallow period. I'm not sure it's widely believed that the anoxia issue has ever been shown to be present in a tank (besides a tank in a lab).

 

[MnFish1]

You could always just sacrifice the bacteria in the media. Soak it in RODI for a few days to kill everything on it, then pop it back in the canister.

I'm not sure this takes care of her issue. Since it's unknown (as far as I know) whether ich that is dormant is as sensitive to hypo salinity (it probably is) I'm not sure this is a good idea to prevent the problem. (And I'm not sure there is a problem to prevent)

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I managed to make 2 fish traps and caught out my pinstripe wrasse and royal gramma so my tank is now fallow and my fish are in a treatment tub. Being in the UK we only have seachem cupramine really available - so this is what I have.

Because I have a wrasse being treated I want to get to the therapeutic dose over 7 days or so, this says 0.5 on the bottle, is this what im shooting for? I have a copper test (seachem) to carry out daily.

Now for the tank - I read that I need to make sure there’s no anoxic environments or the Ich May go dormant and come back - I have a big baster to blow out my Rocks as best I can, but I also have an external canister which is full of seachem matrix - the whole idea of that being that the middle of that media is anoxic to break down nitrate - so my question is if I take my matrix and blast it in highly oxygenated tank water will that be enough to blast through any trophonts? Or will dosing h2O2 increase the oxygen enough to do this? Are the trophonts too big to make it to the centre of matrix?

Any advice much appreciated -

Also any clarification on best fallow length? If I up to 27c (currently at 25c) will it reduce it any?

Sorry for all the questions!

Run cupramine at .425-.45 and do Not exceed.5
Maintain good water quality during treatment and add aeration via air stone
Yes, less display tank fishless for 6-8 weeks

 

[Tired]

I'm not sure this takes care of her issue. Since it's unknown (as far as I know) whether ich that is dormant is as sensitive to hypo salinity (it probably is) I'm not sure this is a good idea to prevent the problem. (And I'm not sure there is a problem to prevent)

I was under the impression that soaking equipment thoroughly in RO water for 24 hours or more is known to kill dormant ich.

I don't know enough about those filters to have any clue how far in a pathogen could get, but sterilizing the media (or at least killing every saltwater organism on it) would definitely remove any concern of ich in there, and the bacteria should have plenty of time to recover during the fallow period.

 

[MnFish1]

I was under the impression that soaking equipment thoroughly in RO water for 24 hours or more is known to kill dormant ich.

I don't know enough about those filters to have any clue how far in a pathogen could get, but sterilizing the media (or at least killing every saltwater organism on it) would definitely remove any concern of ich in there, and the bacteria should have plenty of time to recover during the fallow period.

The problem with the whole theory is that there are many low oxygen areas in a tank - and so doing anything to a filter doesn't make sense. By the way you're correct the usual ich life cycle the growing 'dormant' particles are different (presumed different) - when they are in anoxia.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I managed to make 2 fish traps and caught out my pinstripe wrasse and royal gramma so my tank is now fallow and my fish are in a treatment tub. Being in the UK we only have seachem cupramine really available - so this is what I have.

Because I have a wrasse being treated I want to get to the therapeutic dose over 7 days or so, this says 0.5 on the bottle, is this what im shooting for? I have a copper test (seachem) to carry out daily.

Now for the tank - I read that I need to make sure there’s no anoxic environments or the Ich May go dormant and come back - I have a big baster to blow out my Rocks as best I can, but I also have an external canister which is full of seachem matrix - the whole idea of that being that the middle of that media is anoxic to break down nitrate - so my question is if I take my matrix and blast it in highly oxygenated tank water will that be enough to blast through any trophonts? Or will dosing h2O2 increase the oxygen enough to do this? Are the trophonts too big to make it to the centre of matrix?

Any advice much appreciated -

Also any clarification on best fallow length? If I up to 27c (currently at 25c) will it reduce it any?

Sorry for all the questions!

Yes - I would target 0.50 ppm Cupramine for 21 days.

Fallow periods vary - I would say 60 days is safe in your case.

The whole "anoxic" issue came from an old study. It was anoxic, bacteria free and cooler water that was able to maintain viable tomonts for longer periods, this was a petri dish test, not in an aquarium at all.

Jay