OP
OP
I've heard good things!
*INFESTED* Zoa Eating Nudi's, the Battle Begins
- Thread starter CodyRVA
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I've heard good things!
Lionfish Lair
Renee
When I get home, I'm going to put a little synopsis of the different things you tried etc etc.
Click on Removal Methods.
http://www.lionfishlair.com/hitchhikers-guide/nudibranch-predatory-2/
Click on Removal Methods.
http://www.lionfishlair.com/hitchhikers-guide/nudibranch-predatory-2/
OP
OP
Tonight's tests:
And
Both were worthless. Even after 10 minutes and adding more and more, the nudis were entirely unaffected.
Then I tried...
Not bayer, but this one had good results. A drop didn't do much after 5 minutes. 3 drops, again all 1 ounce of tank water, after 10 minutes seemed to slow their activity, but no deaths. Then I added a bunch until the water looked cloudy. That basically killed them in seconds...
Deciding not to waste my other test subjects, I added some ammonia. As you can imagine, they were instantly toast...
I am still planning to test bayer this weekend as well as a few others. I think at this point we have many ways of killing the nudis, but seemingly no way to handle the eggs except manual removal. The eggs I saved are continuing to grow, hoping to use them for more tests.
Stay tuned!
And
Both were worthless. Even after 10 minutes and adding more and more, the nudis were entirely unaffected.
Then I tried...
Not bayer, but this one had good results. A drop didn't do much after 5 minutes. 3 drops, again all 1 ounce of tank water, after 10 minutes seemed to slow their activity, but no deaths. Then I added a bunch until the water looked cloudy. That basically killed them in seconds...
Deciding not to waste my other test subjects, I added some ammonia. As you can imagine, they were instantly toast...
I am still planning to test bayer this weekend as well as a few others. I think at this point we have many ways of killing the nudis, but seemingly no way to handle the eggs except manual removal. The eggs I saved are continuing to grow, hoping to use them for more tests.
Stay tuned!
rockstarta78
Well-Known Member
Following. This a great thread. I'm interested to see the Bayer treatment. I airways dip all my corals in Bayer. And if I remember I'll take a tooth brush and gently brush the polyps too hoping no eggs of any sort gets into the dt.
najer
Valuable Member
I just use a small brush to manually remove any eggs I can see, not heard of anything that will kill the eggs.
Occasionally at the store I used to work at, we would get wild colonies in that would have them. My tried and true method was bayer dip, fw dip with an upside down swishing for a few minutes. Put in qt. Repeat daily for 1 week. Never had any make it to the display and never had any major damage. The aggressive swishing seems to dislodge most of them after the Bayer weakens them. Still need to manually remove the eggs you can see, though.
I try to qt incoming corals if possible in large systems now. I think coral qt is hugely overlooked by most hobbyists.
I try to qt incoming corals if possible in large systems now. I think coral qt is hugely overlooked by most hobbyists.
Thanks for posting your findings on which method works best.
Freshwater is most effective because it doesn't harm the zoas besides ticking them off for a few hours. The freshwater immediately bursts the membrane of the nudis because of osmotic pressure.
Keeping this in mind, the TLF coral dip that you did, while most effective in your observation, was preceded by a FW rinse. It wouldn't hurt to try the dip again without the freshwater rinse so that the results are purely the dip and not the freshwater rinse which is extremely effective in of itself.
Thank you.
Freshwater is most effective because it doesn't harm the zoas besides ticking them off for a few hours. The freshwater immediately bursts the membrane of the nudis because of osmotic pressure.
Keeping this in mind, the TLF coral dip that you did, while most effective in your observation, was preceded by a FW rinse. It wouldn't hurt to try the dip again without the freshwater rinse so that the results are purely the dip and not the freshwater rinse which is extremely effective in of itself.
Thank you.
OP
OP
Thanks for the input! TLF - two little fishies. I may have poorly described my actions, but I dipped the entire rock in TLF coral revive for 15 min, then did the FW dip, really just to get the solution off the rock before returning it to the display.
I have tested with only a FW dip, with great results. Considering the TLF recommends a max of 15 min dip I think the findings prior to cleansing the rock are accurate.
I could experiment with extended dips with the TLF. As mentioned, I'm finding many easy methods to killing the nudis and not the coral; I'm starting to shift focus to attacking the eggs... if I can in fact do the tests.
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RJ Harris
Active Member
I feel your pain. I can help with #2. I've never seen a nudi on any of my palys or larger varieties of zoas. I have a colony of green zoas next to my agave pe. They won't go near the pe's. they say they turn the color of what they eat, which mine are green but still never see them on or near the other palys or larger zoas and that's all I keep now because of it.
petemichelle
Well-Known Member
i see them on my larger palys and eggs on the palys as well. how about that ortho home defense that you used? have you tried it on the eggs? I saw it said "Kills eggs too" on the label. I too am currently battling them.
OP
OP
I haven't yet, but I saw that too; hoping to try it out!
OP
OP
Bayer:
I started with 2 drops on this one, same 1 ounce of tank water, and this had no affect. I assumed it was just not potent enough. So, I based the test off of another thread that suggested 10ml of Bayer for every 4 ounces of water; quite strong. So, that's what I did; 2.5ml of Bayer per 1 ounce of tank water.
Basically, the nudis reacted immediately to the Bayer. They didn't die, but were clearly messed up. If you were dipping coral that had nudis, not eggs per say, they would definitely fall off.
After 5 minutes the nudis were trying to move, but weren't doing so good. After ten minutes they were definitely dead, as was the star fish.
If I find more nudis I'd like to focus on Bayer and revive and see how weak I can make the solution and still have positive results. The three I found tonight were very hard to find.
Even after all this testing, I'm still leaning towards a traditional coral dip, egg scrub, and manual removal for nudis, but we shall see what the final verdict is.
Side note: there are a plethora of types of Bayer, I used complete bc thats what I saw being used online. I have no clue how effective the other types would do. I use that ortho bug killer for a test and would love to explore that as a practical use for coral dipping as well.
Also, shout out to @Fish Werx for the Bayer hookup; hope those fish do alright for you Sir!
Egg update: they've gotten larger but stalled. The temp they've been kept at has been slightly lower by accident, curious if this could be a possible treatment option for nudi eggs...?
I started with 2 drops on this one, same 1 ounce of tank water, and this had no affect. I assumed it was just not potent enough. So, I based the test off of another thread that suggested 10ml of Bayer for every 4 ounces of water; quite strong. So, that's what I did; 2.5ml of Bayer per 1 ounce of tank water.
Basically, the nudis reacted immediately to the Bayer. They didn't die, but were clearly messed up. If you were dipping coral that had nudis, not eggs per say, they would definitely fall off.
After 5 minutes the nudis were trying to move, but weren't doing so good. After ten minutes they were definitely dead, as was the star fish.
If I find more nudis I'd like to focus on Bayer and revive and see how weak I can make the solution and still have positive results. The three I found tonight were very hard to find.
Even after all this testing, I'm still leaning towards a traditional coral dip, egg scrub, and manual removal for nudis, but we shall see what the final verdict is.
Side note: there are a plethora of types of Bayer, I used complete bc thats what I saw being used online. I have no clue how effective the other types would do. I use that ortho bug killer for a test and would love to explore that as a practical use for coral dipping as well.
Also, shout out to @Fish Werx for the Bayer hookup; hope those fish do alright for you Sir!
Egg update: they've gotten larger but stalled. The temp they've been kept at has been slightly lower by accident, curious if this could be a possible treatment option for nudi eggs...?
pickupman66
5000 Club Member
Bayer:
After 5 minutes the nudis were trying to move, but weren't doing so good. After ten minutes they were definitely dead, as was the star fish.
If I find more nudis I'd like to focus on Bayer and revive and see how weak I can make the solution and still have positive results. The three I found tonight were very hard to find.
Side note: there are a plethora of types of Bayer, I used complete bc thats what I saw being used online.
YUP< that is the correct stuff.
OP
OP
Quick Update:
I haven't performed any new testing, i'm having a hard time finding nudi's... thats a good thing right?? I really am starting to believe manual removal is the way to go at this point, but I will continue to test the nudi's i do find. I still have frag with the eggs, still have not hatched, actually look like they broke down, possibly from the temp. I do have a few medium sized nudi's alive in a holding tank i'm going to try and feed some ugly palys. More to come...
I haven't performed any new testing, i'm having a hard time finding nudi's... thats a good thing right?? I really am starting to believe manual removal is the way to go at this point, but I will continue to test the nudi's i do find. I still have frag with the eggs, still have not hatched, actually look like they broke down, possibly from the temp. I do have a few medium sized nudi's alive in a holding tank i'm going to try and feed some ugly palys. More to come...
OP
OP
Another update:
I'm not finding any more nudis or eggs; reaffirming my belief that manual removal and initial dipping is the best path for success.
I am still monitoring 2, "medium," nudis with a frag of zoas. I'm tracking the temp and replacing with fresh tank water daily.
As mentioned, my hopes are these nudis lay eggs and I can continue to test them, specifically the eggs, for other treatment options.
Stay tuned...
I'm not finding any more nudis or eggs; reaffirming my belief that manual removal and initial dipping is the best path for success.
I am still monitoring 2, "medium," nudis with a frag of zoas. I'm tracking the temp and replacing with fresh tank water daily.
As mentioned, my hopes are these nudis lay eggs and I can continue to test them, specifically the eggs, for other treatment options.
Stay tuned...
OP
OP
Another quick update:
Found another huge nudi today which is quite random since I haven't found any for some time. I'm going to assume my coral banded shrimp either isn't actually eating these guys or he just kept missing this one. Another note, they're still sticking to that same colony of zoas. I did collect this one and put it with the others in hopes to get some eggs. They're definitely susceptible in regards to salinity, the holding cup for the captured nudi's and eggs is by no means stabile and the salinity swings seem to be wiping the nudi's out pretty fast. This may be a method to treat for eggs as well, i'll keep a closer eye on salinity and confirm, more to come...
Found another huge nudi today which is quite random since I haven't found any for some time. I'm going to assume my coral banded shrimp either isn't actually eating these guys or he just kept missing this one. Another note, they're still sticking to that same colony of zoas. I did collect this one and put it with the others in hopes to get some eggs. They're definitely susceptible in regards to salinity, the holding cup for the captured nudi's and eggs is by no means stabile and the salinity swings seem to be wiping the nudi's out pretty fast. This may be a method to treat for eggs as well, i'll keep a closer eye on salinity and confirm, more to come...
OP
OP
Can anyone confirm or refute if these are nudi eggs? I just read an article about undeveloped nudi eggs going milky which is exactly what these did, thoughts? I did testing on them, I'll share my results assuming they are eggs, look for the white dots...
I also have an update on the eggs I had in my sump. Salinity seems to be the biggest threat to both the eggs and full grown nudis. A pure RODI dip decimated the adults and pending the ID of the possibility of eggs above, had similar results.
In this case I let the salinity rise vs using fresh water to 1.030 and the nudis turned to mush, the same with the eggs.
I also have an update on the eggs I had in my sump. Salinity seems to be the biggest threat to both the eggs and full grown nudis. A pure RODI dip decimated the adults and pending the ID of the possibility of eggs above, had similar results.
In this case I let the salinity rise vs using fresh water to 1.030 and the nudis turned to mush, the same with the eggs.
OP
OP
Interesting, I knew what they looked like, the circle pattern, but wasn't sure if when first laid they looked any different. Would love to know what those white dots are then.
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