Internal Overflow Box Plumbing with Bulkheads

[dhof]

I have a 40 Breeder reef with a 29 sump. I'm planning on adding another 40 breeder next to it, and using the same sump for both tanks. While I'm adding a 2nd tank, I thought it might be nice to have an entirely separate external refugium tank, instead of the small compartment in my current sump. I'm not entirely sure how to plumb it all, so I've been sketching a plan out.

Problem: I don't think I can get enough height on the external refugium tank to use a typical overflow box where pipes exit the bottom. I am trying to think of a way that the drains might be able to come out the side. I am not a terribly experienced reefer, nor am I a plumber, but the plan below seems to make sense to me. Wondering if anyone has input on if this is a good design:

Below: a general overview of what I'm trying to accomplish here:

Below: a closer look at my idea for having the external refugium lines exit out of the side, rather than the bottom. I'm basically thinking a herbie, but if I had enough room I could also do a bean animal:

Anyone think this is a terrible idea to come out of the side instead of the bottom? All input and experiences are welcome....

 

[Ron Reefman]

Don't use an overflow in the fuge. Lower the fuge so it's the same level as the sump and then just do a bulkhead in the fuge and the sump and connect them. I'd use soft hose rather than pvc for the connector in case one tank gets bumped you don't want it breaking either tank.

 

[dhof]

Don't use an overflow in the fuge. Lower the fuge so it's the same level as the sump and then just do a bulkhead in the fuge and the sump and connect them. I'd use soft hose rather than pvc for the connector in case one tank gets bumped you don't want it breaking either tank.

Would you put the bulkhead at the water level on both the sump and the external refugium, or would you put it at the bottom of both? I really don't want to drill my sump since it is actively in use and would be devastating if anything went wrong with the drilling...

Plus, I forgot to mention that silence is critical to me. I have achieved absolute silence with my current system and want to make this next add on just as silent.

Is there something wrong with using an overflow on the fuge?

 

[Reef-junky]

Two ways to do this. Have one tank higher then the other and use a bulkhead and a big pipe or have the two tanks at the same level and connect them with a bulkhead and big pipe. As far as where to put the pipe it depends on what’s in the sump and how far you want the water to drain down. You just want it under water all the way. You won’t get noise from the pipe as long as where the water comes out is just below the water line.

 

[dhof]

Two ways to do this. Have one tank higher then the other and use a bulkhead and a big pipe or have the two tanks at the same level and connect them with a bulkhead and big pipe. As far as where to put the pipe it depends on what’s in the sump and how far you want the water to drain down. You just want it under water all the way. You won’t get noise from the pipe as long as where the water comes out is just below the water line.

Thanks for the info and the pictures, that is helpful.

The "same level" method requires that I drill my active sump, so I think that is a non-starter for me...

The "higher tank" method is the way I'm going to go. Placing the drain outlet 1" below the water line in the sump should keep things quiet. Since my 2nd tank is going to be draining into the refugium and then the refugium drains into the sump, I'd like to put a herbie or a bean animal from the refugium to the sump, for safety.

It sounds like just placing plain bulkheads into the wall of the refugium will do the trick, but my original idea was to put a weir in there, in order to help keep snails and bunches of chaeto from just easily getting sucked right into an open bulkhead opening in the tank.

I found this picture of a similar setup to what I was envisioning in my original drawing. I suppose I could even see if someone like modular marine would make their normal overflow box customized with the drain holes on the side of the external box instead of the bottom of it.

 

[Reef-junky]

You really don’t need another overflow box. Most people don’t use them between two sumps. Just on big pvc pipe or you could even add a second one if you want to go crazy.

 

[dhof]

You really don’t need another overflow box. Most people don’t use them between two sumps. Just on big pvc pipe or you could even add a second one if you want to go crazy.

So far the consensus seems to be not to use an overflow at all, but just use some bulkheads through the glass. That's interesting to me because I would have thought having a weir to block the snails & chaeto a bit would be desirable. I sketched out the 2 options that I perceive are left, and it sounds like most people think Option 1 is the better option? I totally get that option 1 is the cheaper/easier option, but I would think Option 2 is the superior method long-term.

 

[Reef-junky]

If you put a 2” pipe on the sump it is not likely to plug. If you want to could put a strainer on the end of the bulkhead but your probably better off just letting stuff go down the pipe vs getting stuck on the strainer. The bigger the pipe the harder it is to plug. What I would do is put a baffle on the other side to contain the chaeto or put it in the chamber before the skimmer. Not sure what you are trying to do in the second sump that you have a filter sock in there. You also have no bubble trap before the return pump. Why have the pipe from the higher sump go over the skimmer like that vs just having it drop down? In fact why not just run an ATS instead of chaeto.

 

[dhof]

If you put a 2” pipe on the sump it is not likely to plug. If you want to could put a strainer on the end of the bulkhead but your probably better off just letting stuff go down the pipe vs getting stuck on the strainer. The bigger the pipe the harder it is to plug. What I would do is put a baffle on the other side to contain the chaeto or put it in the chamber before the skimmer. Not sure what you are trying to do in the second sump that you have a filter sock in there. You also have no bubble trap before the return pump. Why have the pipe from the higher sump go over the skimmer like that vs just having it drop down? In fact why not just run an ATS instead of chaeto.

More good perspectives, I appreciate it. The option 1 and option 2 pics are sort of a zoomed in pic of the connection from the refugium sump to the main sump. Below is the overall picture showing what I'm trying to accomplish here. Maybe this will help make better sense of it:

1. The 40breeder reef and sump below it (shown on the right side) are already established tanks. The 40 breeder on the left and the refugium sump are the 'add-on' idea.
2. The chaeto section of my current sump is a little small, and I'm totally out of equipment space in the pump section, so the thought is that I could move the chaeto to a separate refugium, and gain some space in my main sump for more equipment down the road
3. I'd split the return lines from my main pump and backup pump (shown in green), so that my current 2 pumps supply water to both DTs.
4. Add another 40 Breeder tank, and have that overflow go into a 2nd sump directly below the new 40Breeder. This 2nd sump would really be a large refugium . I'd have it drain to my current sump after the skimmer so the pods can make it to the DT, and because the 1st chamber (before the skimmer) of my current sump can really only fit 1 more drain pipe anyway.
5. I have plenty of volume in my current sump to handle the overflow from the new tanks.

I think the above is a solid plan, but I am specifically interested in how to accomplish the connection from the refugium sump to the main sump. Sounds like direct bulkheads will work, and also sounds like an overflow weir might be overkill, but not a terrible idea if cost is not a factor...

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Reef-junky]

I see what your doing. Can you run both overflows to one sump?

 

[dhof]

I see what your doing. Can you run both overflows to one sump?

No reason I couldn’t run the new 40breeder on the left into the main sump instead of the refugium sump as shown.

I was thinking of having it go directly to the Refugium sump on the left only because it’d be (a lot) less pipe routing work.... If there is some good reason not to have it drain to the refugium sump, I could certainly figure out the plumbing to drain it to the main sump instead.

I’d prefer draining it into the refugium sump for simplicity, and so that I’m not using up all the space in the main sump that I’m creating by separating the fuge in the first place.

 

[Reef-junky]

I was thinking have both DTs go into the refugium then to the 2nd sump from there as well. Get rid of the filter sock on the 2nd sump and have the pipe drop down right away instead of going over the skimmer. Put a baffle in right before the bulkhead on the refugium. You would just have to make sure the pipe from the refugium can handle the flow.

 

[codee]

@dhof Sorry to necro this old thread, but what did you end up doing with your external refugium? Did you send your DT overflow directly into the fuge? And if so, how’d it work?