Is Marine Pure effective at reducing nitrates? We learn some valuable lessons. | BRStv Investigates

[miyags]

This thread was about whether it lowers nitrate or not.

 

[Ryanbrs]

I think the values are a result of the thickness of the material coupled with very fine aluminosilicate particulate. The thicker the material - the more particulate is stuck within the matrix of the material and not available in solution. The ICP technique to measure this is going to digest that particulate which is why we can't determine what the form of aluminum is (we could take a SWAG if we also saw the Si results from BRS - if the SI results were in proportion to the Alumina results - we could theorize that the material was aluminosilicate and not aluminum oxide - but that's not really what ICP tests are meant to be used for - its not going to be quantifiable).

the ball media being lower concentration than the 4" block throws that theory out of the water unless that ball media was rinsed in a different way than the other media. Maybe the manufacturing process does not allow the formation of the same number of fine particulate like the other two media. Maybe BRS did not use the same amount (by weight) of the three types of media.

Physical placement within the testing tanks and available flow could also play a role in the different concentrations. different configurations of flow and physical placement could release more or less particulate. Plate is exposed to maximum flow, block is on it's 4" edge so only 1/2 is exposed to flow, etc.

Here ya go : )

Control Si - 174 ug/l
Block Si - 380 ug/l
Plate - 313 ug/l
Spheres - 544 ug/l

One other interesting note, they all had considerably less phosphate than the control.

Control p /po4 - 3086 ug/l , 9.443 mg/l
Block p /po4 - 1862 ug/l , 5.698 mg/l
Plate p /po4 -2130 ug/l , 6.518 mg/l
Spheres p /po4 - 1663 ug/l , 5.089 mg/l

 

[Ted_C]

Here ya go : )

Control Si - 174 ug/l
Block Si - 380 ug/l
Plate - 313 ug/l
Spheres - 544 ug/l

One other interesting note, they all had considerably less phosphate than the control.

Control p /po4 - 3086 ug/l , 9.443 mg/l
Block p /po4 - 1862 ug/l , 5.698 mg/l
Plate p /po4 -2130 ug/l , 6.518 mg/l
Spheres p /po4 - 1663 ug/l , 5.089 mg/l

Thanks Ryan.

The numbers for silica don't correlate at all to the aluminum readings.

Also - isn't 3086 microgram/l 3.086 milligram/l? Is that 9.443 milligram/l the Phosphorous / phosphate conversion?

 

[siggy]

I have been following this and I have yet to see a response, explanation or study from a manufacture, they must be following this.
Just for the halibut, lava rock been done ?, I noticed someone calling matrix pumice stone.

 

[Scott Campbell]

Thanks Ryan.

The numbers for silica don't correlate at all to the aluminum readings.

Also - isn't 3086 microgram/l 3.086 milligram/l? Is that 9.443 milligram/l the Phosphorous / phosphate conversion?

The silica numbers might be slightly useful.

If you just look at the spheres it would appear the ceramic material is roughly 90% silica and 10% alumina. Which is unlikely. The block gives you a ratio of 80% silica to 20% alumina. Possible. And the plate is something like 55% alumina and 45% silica. Also possible. But I feel certain Marine Pure is using a single formula - at least for the square shapes. If you average the 3 shapes you get a ratio of roughly 70% silica and 30% alumina - which is a very common ratio for ceramic materials. It would have been nice and super helpful if all three shapes displayed a similar ratio of silica to alumina but maybe that is an unreasonable expectation for the Triton test. A 70/30 average ratio gives me some confidence the BRS Triton tests are in the ballpark. Or at least a few blocks from the ballpark. This is clearly a somewhat ordinary ceramic material releasing a somewhat ordinary ratio of silica and alumina on average across 3 sample tests.

Looking at the combined silica and alumina released for each shape also seems helpful. The block releases 250 parts total of silica and alumina. The plate releases 315 parts total with 1/4 the volume. For the same volume the plate is releasing 5 times the material. I still find it unlikely the plate is allowing 5 times more material to dissolve than the block. I don't really know what would make that possible. But 5 times more particulate dust seems very likely. (More likely than 14 times the particulate dust in my opinion.) Cutting ceramic material that soft to a 1" thickness could easily compromise the structure and cause a five-fold increase in ceramic dust.

Thanks again Ryan for sharing all of this information!!!

 

[bif24701]

I have been following this and I have yet to see a response, explanation or study from a manufacture, they must be following this.
Just for the halibut, lava rock been done ?, I noticed someone calling matrix pumice stone.

Matrix is a natural occurring rock, I guess it could be called pumice.

 

[bif24701]

All I know is I'll take anyone's MarinePure if they decide they no longer wish to keep it.

 

[siggy]

Im curing a .5 gallon mp left over from my 75, for a frag & QT
Althow my toad stool is not what it should be, barely any extension
Thought it was from too clean water

 

[BigHildy53]

I have been following this and I have yet to see a response, explanation or study from a manufacture, they must be following this.
Just for the halibut, lava rock been done ?, I noticed someone calling matrix pumice stone.

Here's what the manufacturer said in January 2017: http://cermedia.com/blog.php?p=142

 

[Scott Campbell]

Here's what the manufacturer said in January 2017: http://cermedia.com/blog.php?p=142

What is an "unfired ceramic bio-media product"? That doesn't even make sense. It's just mud / clay / dirt if not heated to a sufficient temperature in a kiln. To claim - "This is a reason MarinePure makes the extra investment in firing all their products, thereby providing superior value" - is a completely absurd statement. Like Keebler Cookies bragging about actually baking their cookies in an oven.

I also find it odd that they wait until day 35 to run a test. And even at day 35 the unrinsed blocks show 50% higher levels of released material. How about a test at day 2?

The company does nothing to help their case with this.

 

[bif24701]

I still don't see the problem

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Ryan.

The numbers for silica don't correlate at all to the aluminum readings.

I wouldn't want to overinterpret what may just be testing error, but I see no reason these numbers need to agree. Silica is readily used by organisms such as diatoms, so there's no reason to expect them to correlate. I wouldn't also assume the material is entirely homoegenous with a single Al/Si ratio right down to the atomic level. It could easily have deposits of SiO2 or Al2O3 in or on it.

 

[chicago]

I have eight of the blocks all together to form a more solid large area in my sump.. have had them in my 300 gallon sump for at least four months. to date I have seen no nitrate reduction but rather would call it a nitrate factory.. just my 2 cents.

 

[bif24701]

I have eight of the blocks all together to form a more solid large area in my sump.. have had them in my 300 gallon sump for at least four months. to date I have seen no nitrate reduction but rather would call it a nitrate factory.. just my 2 cents.

That a lot, do you have at least some flow around them? It is possible you are carbon limited, try dosing some carbon. The Marine Pure only provides great surface area, the bacteria still need all the rest too.

 

[MartinWaite]

What is an "unfired ceramic bio-media product"? That doesn't even make sense. It's just mud / clay / dirt if not heated to a sufficient temperature in a kiln. To claim - "This is a reason MarinePure makes the extra investment in firing all their products, thereby providing superior value" - is a completely absurd statement. Like Keebler Cookies bragging about actually baking their cookies in an oven.

I also find it odd that they wait until day 35 to run a test. And even at day 35 the unrinsed blocks show 50% higher levels of released material. How about a test at day 2?

The company does nothing to help their case with this.

And if they did the test on day 2 you'd have then said they didn't wait long enough. No matter what they did they proved there point MarinePure doesn't leach aluminium and I can bet all the people that have done the Triton tests and had alum readings all have some aluminium production like led lights or polished alum t5 reflectors on/over their tanks that they have never taken into account.

 

[jason2459]

And if they did the test on day 2 you'd have then said they didn't wait long enough. No matter what they did they proved there point MarinePure doesn't leach aluminium and I can bet all the people that have done the Triton tests and had alum readings all have some aluminium production like led lights or polished alum t5 reflectors on/over their tanks that they have never taken into account.

Did they prove it doesn't release Al? I don't see that.

It's discussed quite a bit here
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-aluminum-will-it-leach-lets-guess.247034/page-21

 

[Big G]

While not very scientific, my DT was running 10ppm nitrate. Placed one 8 x 8 Marinepure plate into my sump. A few days later it's running 5ppm nitrate and has stayed there for weeks. No other changes made.

 

[chicago]

there is flow around the blocks. perhaps to much flow. I assume I have carbons as my nitrates are high as are phosphates.

 

[Greaps]

I have eight of the blocks all together to form a more solid large area in my sump.. have had them in my 300 gallon sump for at least four months. to date I have seen no nitrate reduction but rather would call it a nitrate factory.. just my 2 cents.

Yeah I ran one before and don't think it did much of anything. I keep thinking a remote deep sand would better ensure you have that denitrification area following the typical guidelines. Rather than hoping perfect placement and perfect flow conditions provide this result. A deep sand bed which to my knowledge is proven to denitrification requires 5-6 inches of depth. A marine pure block is only 4 inches thick and 2 inches to center. The bottom of a remote deep sand bed is always 5-6 inches deep due to the container.

 

[klp]

What is an "unfired ceramic bio-media product"? That doesn't even make sense. It's just mud / clay / dirt if not heated to a sufficient temperature in a kiln. To claim - "This is a reason MarinePure makes the extra investment in firing all their products, thereby providing superior value" - is a completely absurd statement. Like Keebler Cookies bragging about actually baking their cookies in an oven.

I also find it odd that they wait until day 35 to run a test. And even at day 35 the unrinsed blocks show 50% higher levels of released material. How about a test at day 2?

The company does nothing to help their case with this.

Because you do not understand what a term means or involves is no reason to denigrate it. Their tests clearly show the results are better when they are fired using the link that BigHildy53 gave.

I agree with you about unrinsed blocks. They did not bother to explain those results so it would appear that you must rinse the blocks first or risk markedly higher level of aluminum.