Is Marine Pure effective at reducing nitrates? We learn some valuable lessons. | BRStv Investigates

[klp]

I wouldn't want to overinterpret what may just be testing error, but I see no reason these numbers need to agree. Silica is readily used by organisms such as diatoms, so there's no reason to expect them to correlate. I wouldn't also assume the material is entirely homoegenous with a single Al/Si ratio right down to the atomic level. It could easily have deposits of SiO2 or Al2O3 in or on it.

I noticed after reading the comments from the manufacturer (http://cermedia.com/blog.php?p=142) about inert forms of aluminum causing no harm. As far as I know their are no published results for that or what percentage we may be measuring. In other words is the whole aluminum thing a non issue to measuring inert forms of it? I was wondering if you had any thoughts or further information on it being a non issue as even our salt has aluminum in it so how to differentiate between inert and reactive aluminum.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Like Keebler Cookies bragging about actually baking their cookies in an oven.
.

lol

Or Purina Beneful dog food (which we use) that includes "real farm raised chicken".

Thank good they are not decimating the wild chicken flocks to make dog food.

 

[jason2459]

I noticed after reading the comments from the manufacturer (http://cermedia.com/blog.php?p=142) about inert forms of aluminum causing no harm. As far as I know their are no published results for that or what percentage we may be measuring. In other words is the whole aluminum thing a non issue to measuring inert forms of it? I was wondering if you had any thoughts or further information on it being a non issue as even our salt has aluminum in it so how to differentiate between inert and reactive aluminum.

Some salts have minor amounts of a trace value of Al in them which is understandable as Al is very prominent through out our planet.

The concentrations boosted by these ceramic media could potentially cause issues to some organisms.

Randy showed issues using another Al based product. I have seen issues with the media I've placed in my tank.

I will soon start another set of experiments as well to help confirm what I've gathered so far.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, I have confidentially discussed aluminum issues in the past week with a company that makes probes for seawater and they have clear data that the aluminum that is released into some reef from popular hobby products is not "inert". The idea that it was "inert" or particulate in form is, IMO, an unsupported assertion by some of the manufacturers, starting with Seachem years ago. It is VERY difficult to distinguish forms of aluminum in seawater. I have not personally done so, except to show that aluminum released from Phosguard can pass through very fine (0.45 micron) filters.

I discuss aluminum issues (including my earlier measurements and toxicity tests) here:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Aluminum In The Reef Aquarium ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/july2003/chem.htm

 

[chicago]

yepp.. my deep sand bed of 10 years ago.. did a great job... but became a problem after five years. as a last chance to see if these blocks do denitrification I plan on putting some acrylic sheets around them to slow up water going through and see if that changes things.. in otherwords box the sides and only allow flow over them like a sand bed..

 

[bif24701]

While not very scientific, my DT was running 10ppm nitrate. Placed one 8 x 8 Marinepure plate into my sump. A few days later it's running 5ppm nitrate and has stayed there for weeks. No other changes made.

It takes weeks to months for bacteria to fully populate the block, so those results could be testing error.

 

[navathehutt]

I would like to see results with a sump packed with Marine Pure blocks. My meaning being a sort of extreme deep sand bed effect. Top layers with aerobic bacteria, and blocks 3 layers deep or so harboring anaerobic bacteria. Theoretically The top layers would have a faster water movement out of the sump, (path of least resistance) therefore carrying more dissolved oxygen for aerobic life. While the water that sinks down to the lower blocks would be slowed and the oxygen used up giving the anaerobic critters the right conditions to feast. If you get my rambling meaning.

I'm doing this now, initially i drilled the ATO for red sea 450 for a mini fuge but my kessil 380 destroys macro algae danger close, so I plan to plumb external refugium /display and all my marine pure balls in the ato with a small pump ( low flow area ) ... my guess? Its all ryans fault for making me learn stuff and cool videos ;Woot;Headphone;Vulcan

 

[Roggio]

There's a lot of people with mixed results. I believe this is due to the bacterial population. I've seeded my media with Bio Spira and a carbon source with great results. If I don't feed my fish 20+ fish heavily my nutrients become undetectable and my corals pale out.

 

[Roggio]

I just received my Triton test results where all my coral is dying. Most have said it’s provably because my tank is not old enough. I have 6 gallons on marinepure spheres. My Al is so high I can’t help but think that’s what’s hurting my coral. (This is with large water changes)

@Ryanbrs if you were me would you pull it out?

 

[MartinWaite]

All this rubbish about MarinePure causing high levels of aluminium when tested via Triton testing yet it seems weird I've yet to hear of anyone having a problem with MarinePure and aluminium with either ATI or AquaForest/MarineLab testing so is it something to do with Triton? I don't know I know ATI also tests your RO water for metals and that since I put my block of MarinePure in ATI hasn't shown and aluminium in my tank.

 

[vio]

As for the Aluminum leaching. Yes, yes it does.

I would read through this thread for more details
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-much-aluminum-will-it-leach-lets-guess.247034/

I got 2 8 x 8 x 4 , Yes Triton test show more Aluminium then i need , i removed , i will test again in few months, in my case those ( Blocks M.P,) do NOTHING for Nitrate or PO4, may ......may ......if those may be some how inside of one reactor , but who will do that....? huge reactor, much easy to use Sulfur reactor ( Denitrification filter ) i made one from 5 Gal. bucket , run MJ 1200 pump , drop the NO3 from 35 ppm in 3-4 weeks to 4 ppm.

 

[chicago]

i purchased 12 blocks for my large sytem believing they would do equal to my old dsb i trashed.. well 5 months later. lots of nitrate. i do not view these as a nitrate reducer. my next step will be to enclosing the sides so no pass through of water .. so only water passes on top... then see if that changes things. they sit in a large 300 gallon sump. i will also do a triton test.. just my 2 cents

 

[vio]

i purchased 12 blocks for my large sytem believing they would do equal to my old dsb i trashed.. well 5 months later. lots of nitrate. i do not view these as a nitrate reducer. my next step will be to enclosing the sides so no pass through of water .. so only water passes on top... then see if that changes things. they sit in a large 300 gallon sump. i will also do a triton test.. just my 2 cents

You gone be surprise , is also a video on YouTube from Bulk Reef Supply , those blocks do NOTHING for Nitrate, i try for many years to control the NO3 and PO4 via Macro Algae , i grow Chaetto more then 50 Local Fish Stores , also Algae Scrubber , i end up to dose ALL kind of stupid thinks to see some NO3, i got undetectable NO3 by growing so much Chaetto , but i realize NEVER have nice color on my SPS, by growing Macro Algae , YES they are the champion of removing NO3 and sPO4 , but................i think they remove more then that, some GOOD stuff , what our SPS inspect , i made my own NO3 Denitrification filter , i drop from 35 ppm to 4 ppm in few weeks , i will post more info. about. I need some time to confirm. But those M.P, blocks = NO good , like i said, may work in close reactor.

 

[vio]

You gone be surprise , is also a video on YouTube from Bulk Reef Supply , those blocks do NOTHING for Nitrate, i try for many years to control the NO3 and PO4 via Macro Algae , i grow Chaetto more then 50 Local Fish Stores , also Algae Scrubber , i end up to dose ALL kind of stupid thinks to see some NO3, i got undetectable NO3 by growing so much Chaetto , but i realize NEVER have nice color on my SPS, by growing Macro Algae , YES they are the champion of removing NO3 and sPO4 , but................i think they remove more then that, some GOOD stuff , what our SPS inspect , i made my own NO3 Denitrification filter , i drop from 35 ppm to 4 ppm in few weeks , i will post more info. about. I need some time to confirm. But those M.P, blocks = NO good , like i said, may work in close reactor.

By the way , i got close to 500 Gal. system , 300 gal Display Tank + 60 Gal. swamp + 90 Gal. Refuge ( Full of Pukany Rocks) + 30 Gal. garbage pal ( full of rocks) +20 Gal. tank i return the effluent of Denitrification Filters ( 2)

 

[chicago]

so if the MP do not do anything for nitrate. Am i better off removing and just going with more live rock for nitrate reduction.

 

[navathehutt]

All this rubbish about MarinePure causing high levels of aluminium when tested via Triton testing yet it seems weird I've yet to hear of anyone having a problem with MarinePure and aluminium with either ATI or AquaForest/MarineLab testing so is it something to do with Triton? I don't know I know ATI also tests your RO water for metals and that since I put my block of MarinePure in ATI hasn't shown and aluminium in my tank.

Yep, no one seems to mention salt mixes, additives, fish foods that can contain aluminum

 

[chicago]

subject is on MP. I dont think the levels in salt and food equal the situation with the Blocks and or some Phosphate removers.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just received my Triton test results where all my coral is dying. Most have said it’s provably because my tank is not old enough. I have 6 gallons on marinepure spheres. My Al is so high I can’t help but think that’s what’s hurting my coral. (This is with large water changes)

I do not have any idea if aluminum is all or part of the problem that you are seeing, but if I had aluminum that high (164 ug/L), I'd look strongly for the source, and I'd stop using any white media (Phosguard, the Marine Pure, Kent Phosphate sponge, etc.).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All this rubbish about MarinePure causing high levels of aluminium when tested via Triton testing yet it seems weird I've yet to hear of anyone having a problem with MarinePure and aluminium with either ATI or AquaForest/MarineLab testing so is it something to do with Triton? I don't know I know ATI also tests your RO water for metals and that since I put my block of MarinePure in ATI hasn't shown and aluminium in my tank.

lol

You definitely need to get out more. I'll help you out:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/m...rm-of-al-into-tank.355397/page-3#post-4416141

"I took a look at my last ATI ICP test and it did have elevated Aluminum, I do have a few marine pure blocks and two boxes of the spheres, "

ATI has specifically come on to my forum to discuss elevated aluminum that they see"

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/elevated-aluminum.345529/#post-4310813

"We made very similar experiences. We have hundreds of tanks with Aluminium at 40 - 150 ug/L in our open database"

To be fair, they also go on to claim that they do not correlate coral problems with the alumimum:

"We have hundreds of tanks with Aluminium at 40 - 150 ug/L in our open database and Corals dont have a real Problem as long as everything else is fine."

Edit: I added this comment. When I looked at the two tanks that ATI specifically called out as OK with high aluminum, I can't see leather corals in them. So one might not expect an issue even at very high levels.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yep, no one seems to mention salt mixes, additives, fish foods that can contain aluminum

Because those other sources just does not seem to correlate with elevated tank levels. I have personally written extensively on the issue of other sources, but nearly everyone who has substantially elevated levels (above 10 ug/L) is also using a white media of some sort (which often contain aluminum)