LaCl Dosing Reactor (No Socks!)

[Thaxxx]

Lol, if you struggle with high phospates and laziness, then this type of reactor helps with both. It makes it easy to remove phosphate and because it is easy, I am able to overcome my laziness and do it!

You just need to becareful to not pull phospahtes down too fast in tanks that have been ran at high phosphates for long periods of time.

As of this morning, my phosphates are 50% lower than they were about a month ago. So now I need to slow down and let the corals catch up with the new reality.

Dennis

I have no idea how you can call yourself lazy after building that just for phosphate control. Unless of course, you are a ocdslackyoligist.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I am making plans for a v2.0 of this filter for use in my (long running) tank build. After using the filter for the past year or so, I have come up with some tweaks and rules for operating that a new build can incorporate.

Some of the improvements over the original design will be

1. Pleated filters on return to tank (10 micron and 5 micron already added to existing filter)
2. Parallel glass bead filters
3. Back flushing capability for all canisters
4. Built in drains for all canisters
5. Minimize tank water usage

The pleated filter addition really helped my confidence that the filter was removing the bound LaPO4. Their addition was also helpful to gauge when a back flush is needed. The glass beads will filter down to 3 microns, but as the filter becomes packed with precipitate, some precipitate will eventually get pushed past as the back pressure builds up. The pleated 10 micron filter, which is next in line, will start to show brown blotchy stains as the precipitate that got past the beads gets trapped. The 5 micron is just for insurance and shows only minor tinting and no obvious signs of particulate still being in the effluent at this point.

The canister containing the glass beads does the majority of the work with this system. It is where precipitated LaPO4 is trapped and then back flushed down the drain. The hard shell canister insert with the small grating from BRS that this is based on, only comes in the 10" x 2.5" size unfortunately. I would prefer a deeper one, like a 20" canister, but with only the 10" available, then I will need to design around that. For that reason, the new design will have 4 of the glass bead canisters operating in parallel. This should extend the time between flushes. With the current design, flushing every 6-8 hours is needed. Once you get to 12-14 hours without a flush, participate will get pushed past, and the flow will drop down to the point where alkalinity can start to bind instead of phosphate. I expect the parallel bead filters will auto adjust the flow as they become packed with precipitate, with the ones with least back pressure taking over for ones that have been blocked with precipitate.

Currently only the bead filter can be back flushed. The pleated filters have to be unscrewed and removed for cleaning in the sink. I plan on adding back flushing for each individual canister (4 glass bead, 2 micron filters). This will negate the need to remove the micron filters for cleaning. It is also handy when I get this thing fully automated. The back flushing in the current v1 system involves actuating a bunch of valves in order. I plan to use 3 way ball valves for the new design with will both help it to be more compact and to require fewer valves. Though each individual valve will be more expensive.

Starting up the v1 design requires tank water to be flushed to the drain to push out the (most likely stagnant) water from the reaction canister. The filter sits unused more than in operation, so water sitting in the reaction chamber in the v1 design, tends to get skunky with the potential for hydrogen sulfide to be present. To avoid putting this water into the tank when the filter resumes, the reaction canister's volume of water plus additional water gets flushed to the drain in the v1 design. For v2, I plan to add a 1/4" drain in the bottom of the reaction chamber hosing and possibly in the micron filter housings as well. I will use the same 3 way ball valves, they have an 'off' setting where both directions are closed. These will be perfect for draining the canisters. My plan for the v2 design is to have the filter drained and ready to be started up after each use. Currently there are manual maintenance in the v1 design, removing the and cleaning the micron filters, flushing the reaction canister, that have to be completed between runs or during the start up. With the addition of liberal drains, both to waste and back to the tank, I hope to minimize the wasted tank water and make it easier to store the filter in a ready state.

For the v2 design, I hope to add automation. This will involve making mounts for high torque solenoids to be mounted to the 3 way ball valves. With the addition of a flow meter, the need for a back flush can be monitored and determined. At that point, the bead filter canisters would be drained back to the tank, then each bead filter will get flushed in sequence until all have been flushed. Pre-draining the bead filters before the flush should help to minimize tank water loss. Several minutes before the flush is started, the LaCl dosing can be suspended to allow both sides of the bead filters to be drained back to the tank with no risk of LaCl being present.

My new build has a filter with a big bed of substrate that I don't want to become bound with concentrated PO4, so I need a plan ready to be able to deal with it in an ongoing way. This redesigned v2 filter will hopefully be the solution to that.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Cool thread, thanks for sharing.

We recently built a LaCl reactor as well, using TkeRacer619's design, from "the other forum". In operation for almost 3 weeks now. Have been stoked with the performance. Like you, wanted something low maintenance. So far, only maintenance has been filling up a 5 gal jug with rodi and adding a couple capfulls of SeaKlear LaCl. Eventually, the pleated filter will need to be removed, rinsed, and cleaned. The reaction chamber/tubing/fittings will need to be cleared out as well. Hoping we can go at least a few weeks or longer until the need arises.

We have a large system (2k+ gallons) with primarily SPS. Po4 levels had gotten to .36 over the years and past attempts to lower using buckets of rowaphos in multiple reactors changed out every 4 days proved cumbersome and ineffective. At this point, the LaCl reactor looks like it will be a game changer for those with larger systems.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Cool thread, thanks for sharing.

We recently built a LaCl reactor as well, using TkeRacer619's design, from "the other forum". In operation for almost 3 weeks now. Have been stoked with the performance. Like you, wanted something low maintenance. So far, only maintenance has been filling up a 5 gal jug with rodi and adding a couple capfulls of SeaKlear LaCl. Eventually, the pleated filter will need to be removed, rinsed, and cleaned. The reaction chamber/tubing/fittings will need to be cleared out as well. Hoping we can go at least a few weeks or longer until the need arises.

We have a large system (2k+ gallons) with primarily SPS. Po4 levels had gotten to .36 over the years and past attempts to lower using buckets of rowaphos in multiple reactors changed out every 4 days proved cumbersome and ineffective. At this point, the LaCl reactor looks like it will be a game changer for those with larger systems.

That looks like an interesting implementation. Is that a 20" x 4.5" canister holding the pleated filter? I will have to go read that thread.

Grrr, I can't seem to read the thread over there. My login has not been used in awhile and no search and very limited viewing is possible. Oh well.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Yep. Standard "big blue" style whole house filtration setup. We opted for a clear housing as we aren't running high pressures and the geek in me wants to see the precipitate build up, to ensure it is working

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Yep. Standard "big blue" style whole house filtration setup. We opted for a clear housing as we aren't running high pressures and the geek in me wants to see the precipitate build up, to ensure it is working

Hmm, I have been looking for those without pressure release and no brass inserts in the threads for awhile. Can I ask as to where you purchased it?

I would be very interested in seeing how long you are able to go between filter changes. I am assuming 10 micron pleated filter?

Ha, my account may be fubar'd, but Google still works. Reading the thread now.

Dennis

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Ok, I just read the thread. Neat design. A whole lot simpler than my filter. Interestingly the amount of water going through that type of filter would be a lot less than mine uses. I am probably filtering way more tank water than I need to. When I was looking a the photos of your unit, I was wondering if the LaCl was combining in the tee. My concern would be with clogging there, and in the thread the OP found that is the case. Keep an eye on that area.

The fact the OP is able to clean the pleated filters in vinegar opens up a whole new avenue for ideas.

Thanks for posting your filter.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Yep. No brass inserts, but unfortunately, it does have a pressure release. We will have to see how that holds up over time.

Amazon had the housing.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GQXM869?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image

Used the same recommended 5 micron filters as well, off Amazon.

Amazon.com

Also, I have a one micron filter sock hanging off the edge of the sump, just incase anything ever makes it through. Also purchased off Amazon. I do believe this filter sock has metal in the ring, so just be sure not to submerge it in water. It was one of the only ones I found with the one micron rating.

Polyester Felt Filter Bag, 1 Micron Rated, Singed for Strength, 4" x 8-1/2" Size (2 Each/Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Polyester Felt Filter Bag, 1 Micron Rated, Singed for Strength, 4" x 8-1/2" Size (2 Each/Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Definitely expecting clogs to occur in the tee, and maybe some of the other fittings, but the fact that they are john guest style fittings should hopefully make maintenance less of a chore. Time will tell.

Will keep you updated on filter maintenance. Were running a bit higher flow rate through the reactor (maybe 450-ish gallons/week).

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Yep. No brass inserts, but unfortunately, it does have a pressure release. We will have to see how that holds up over time.

Amazon had the housing.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07GQXM869?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image

Used the same recommended 5 micron filters as well, off Amazon.

Amazon.com

Also, I have a one micron filter sock hanging off the edge of the sump, just incase anything ever makes it through. Also purchased off Amazon. I do believe this filter sock has metal in the ring, so just be sure not to submerge it in water. It was one of the only ones I found with the one micron rating.

Polyester Felt Filter Bag, 1 Micron Rated, Singed for Strength, 4" x 8-1/2" Size (2 Each/Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Polyester Felt Filter Bag, 1 Micron Rated, Singed for Strength, 4" x 8-1/2" Size (2 Each/Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

Definitely expecting clogs to occur in the tee, and maybe some of the other fittings, but the fact that they are john guest style fittings should hopefully make maintenance less of a chore. Time will tell.

Will keep you updated on filter maintenance. Were running a bit higher flow rate through the reactor (maybe 450-ish gallons/week).

Thanks for the links. I am ordering a housing and filters as we speak.

The pressure release valves are usually a stainless screw and in my experience, they do corrode and leach eventually. I normally remove them and replace them with a nylon bolt and nut with an EPDM o-ring on the bolt.

I see that tkeracer619 posted the USPlastics part #s for the hoses. That will be handy. I had never really considered running differing hoses on a Masterflex to get fractional dosing. That is a great idea.

I plan to build one of these to try out.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Thanks for the suggestion about the pressure release valve, that's a great idea! I will take it apart when I have the reactor down for maintenance. I'm guessing there will be a metal spring in there, that is hopefully removable.

We've been scoring 25' / 50' rolls of norprene tubing on ebay for next to nothing, although I think the usplastics pricing isn't too bad, last time I checked. Just have to search under different names to locate the best deals.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Thanks for the suggestion about the pressure release valve, that's a great idea! I will take it apart when I have the reactor down for maintenance. I'm guessing there will be a metal spring in there, that is hopefully removable.

We've been scoring 25' / 50' rolls of norprene tubing on ebay for next to nothing, although I think the usplastics pricing isn't too bad, last time I checked. Just have to search under different names to locate the best deals.

Usually the spring is outside the head under the button. I will know for sure when my canister gets here and let you know.

Dennis

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I can confirm that the (Geekpure) Big Blue filter housing can have the pressure release removed. The spring is on the outside like the other canister heads. The only difference in this head is that the pocket the pressure release sits in is not a hex shape, so screwing in a nylon blank takes a bit of effort to prevent it from spinning.

I have ordered some heads and tubing for LS13 and LS18 sizes, but until those arrive, I have setup a test using a 2 RPM Masterflex using LS16 and a digital drive using LS17. The LS16 will pump 1.6 ml/m and the LS17 is set to pump 100 ml/m, so the same ratio as the LS13 and LS18 will eventually provide once they get here.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Awesome! I appreciate the info. That's on the to-do list once the pleated filter needs cleaning. Keep us posted on how this works out for you.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

When I was setting up for my test, I needed a reaction chamber. I had a filter canister on hand from a previous DIY project where I was making a bubble trap. The canister has a 1/4" fitting tapped into the head and I realized that it would make a great reaction chamber for adding the LaCl through. The best part is that it can't clog as the LaCl gets dosed into the air gap above the water level.

The canister has a piece of PVC pipe glued into the centre nub the filter normally presses against. This causes a large air gap above the liquid level as the trapped air forces water up and out the center pipe. After thinking about how it was working, I realized that as the pleated filter clogs and the back pressure builds up, the water level inside the canister will rise as the back pressure compresses the trapped air. So I stuck an indicator dot on the water while it is operating with no back pressure. Hah, a manual back pressure gauge.

When my parts arrive for the 'permanent' version of this filter type, I will be using 3/8 hoses for feeding, so I will make another version of this using a canister that has 3/4" ports. That way I can hang it off the Big Blue canister with a union in between.

I am planning on adding a low pressure switch, which will activate on back pressure, so perhaps I will tap a second port into the head for the pressure switch to attach to. I was worried about using these types of RODI switches with saltwater, but the air gap should mean that the switch would never contact the saltwater directly.

Dennis

 

[Dennis Cartier]

The replacement reaction chamber that will be used for 3/8 hosing is coming along nicely. I tapped a couple of 1/8" holes for 1/4 john guest fittings. One of the fittings will be for the LaCl feed, while the other will be for the pressure switch to detect a clogged filter (pressure switch in the last photo). At this point I am not sure how much pressure will cause the switch to activate. Hopefully the filter will be sufficiently blocked before it signals a condition.

I also glued in a 1/2" PVC pipe like I have in the 1/4" version I am running right now.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

That's pretty slick! Looking forward to seeing your completed design.

We have been monitoring the daily lanthanum dose by marking lines on the 5 gallon jug with a chalk pen. Noticed it was not dropping the normal amount, so it suggested a clog. Sure enough, we rinsed out the precipitate clog in the short piece of 1/4 tubing, and tee, in about 30 seconds, and went back online.

Would love to get feedback on the pressure switch you end up going with.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

You could probably lower the chance of clogging in your filter by removing the bottom tee on the PVC and affixing another tee rotated 90 degrees. Thread a 1/4" john guest adapter into each leg of the tee and use 1 for the output of the LS18 hose (tank water) and the other for the output of the LS13 hose (LaCl solution). This would remove the 1/4" tee in the line and allow the mixing to take place in a much larger volume of water than the 1/4" line now provides. That should help with clogging.

I will let you know how the pressure switch works out.

Dennis

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I came up with another handy use of a canister with a center tube glued in. I am planning on running kalk on the new tank and ordered a big 8" reactor from Geo. These reactors are sealed and use a mixing pump. My current kalk reactor is a stirrer type, so I dose 24 x 7 through it. The new one requires a periodic mixing followed by a settlement period before the kalk can be dosed without the possibility of undissolved solids making it into the tank.

While reading a thread about someone's DIY kalk reactor, they had a bottle inline with the effluent line from the reactor to allow any solids to settle out. One of the RODI canisters with a center tube glued in and ran in reverse, enter down through the center tube, exit out the top, should allow any kalk solids to settle out before the effluent ever leaves the canister. This way the settlement period of the kalk reactor can be ignored and dosing can continue 24 x 7. The RODI canister will have to be cleaned of sediment every 6 months or so, but this will be much easier than having to worry about pausing dosing every day.

Dennis

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I have all the bits and pieces collected up to switch to the LS13 hose for dosing the LaCl and the LS18 hose for pushing the tank water through the filter canister. However I ran into a snag with the test version. My test version is using 2 Masterflex drives to dose the 2 components rather than 2 heads on a single drive. The drive for the LaCl is a fixed 2 rpm with a LS16 head, so 1.6 ml/min, and the tank water was running on a digital drive, with an LS17 hose, set to 100 ml/min. I chose the 100 ml/min to get close to the ratio that the permanent LS13 and LS18 heads on the same drive would have.

This worked fine, until it didn't. My daily ULR test showed the phosphorus level had stalled and bounced up to 105 ppb. This after having dropped steadily and paused around 90 ppb, which I took to be the baseline level in my rocks at that point.

On a hunch, I increased the pump for the tank water to 110 ml/min. The daily tests from that point on dropped back down to 85 - 90 ppb. A few days later I increased the tank pump to 150ml/min. The daily test continued to slowly fall, reaching 67 ppb. All this occurred without changing the LaCl dosing speed, still 1.6 ml/min on the fixed speed drive, or changing the LaCl concentration, diluted to add 1 ml of ATM Agent Green per day.

So I am questioning if the 1.5% ratio that the LS13 and LS18 heads on the same drive might limit the concentration of LaCl that can be used, without being phosphate limited at an early point.

I might just install the LS13 head onto a separate Masterflex digital drive so that I can vary the ratio. The fixed 2 rpm drive does make for a super slow dose rate and small daily dose (0.12 ml/min and 172 ml/day), which would make a 5 gallon bucket of diluted LaCl last like 3 months! However I would probably run up against concentration issues again and have too much LaCl reacting with alkalinity instead of phosphate. Unless of course it was a super low maintenance dose, and then I think it might be perfect.

I just refilled the 5 gallon bucket today, so I have just over a week to decided on how to setup the new head/hose/drive combination.

Dennis

 

[cvysochin]

Decided to clean the filter after almost 2 months of run-time. I'd say it's definitely working. Testing the water still shows the phosphate levels haven't dropped much, but the corals are telling a different story. Stuff is looking much better/more colors coming out. Not in any hurry to drop the levels, so will keep at it with no modifications. The last photo shows the filter after rinsing the top half.