LaCl Dosing Reactor (No Socks!)

[Dennis Cartier]

I have been following this thread for quite a while now and would love to pick your brain about some of the finer details. I have made up a very similar unit over the past two months and actually got it online finally today. 10" x 2.4" reaction chamber with honeycomb-drilled pvc as a flow modifier with a 20" x 4.5" 5 micron pleated filter after. Have a Neptune 1/4" flow meter to keep an eye on my input/output flow rate with a Kamoer Pro 2 Doser pump controlling the Lanthanum dose every half hour. Waiting on a very similar pressure gauge as the standard oil filled pressure gauge from RODI setup doesn't give me any sort of readings even when the output was entirely clogged. What sort of pressure readings were you getting with the pleated filter setup?

Another question is: Did you ever play around with mixing up the reaction chamber in any more of an effective manner? My work got in a bunch of replacement lower plastics for RODI canisters that have been dropped over the years, and Im wondering if its worth trying to machine out that bottom nub to be able to use some sort of magnetic stirring action within the reaction vessel itself.

Second question is: Is it worthwhile to try adding a secondary filter chamber to REALLY make sure that all LACl percipitate is out of the water coming out of the rx? Thinking a final 10" x 2.5" 1 micron pleated filter would really polish it out as I build up stock of nicer fish after a bad crash last summer. Just worried about some of the tangs/ angels etc... with more complicated gills that I have interest in keeping once again.

Sorry if the picture is a bit confusing as its in front of my calc reactor setup as I temporarily use one of my dosing containers as a stand while i work something up for such a THICCCK filter. Glad to be rid of the socks though!

I just noticed the gauge you are using has a brass fitting. I would suggest caution, even if the brass is in an air space as condensation can still cause issues. A gauge guard can protect the gauge in these sorts of situations. Plast-o-matic makes a number of them, including some economy versions.

You may want to just remove it instead if it is failing to provide a useful reading anyway.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

I just noticed the gauge you are using has a brass fitting. I would suggest caution, even if the brass is in an air space as condensation can still cause issues. A gauge guard can protect the gauge in these sorts of situations. Plast-o-matic makes a number of them, including some economy versions.

You may want to just remove it instead if it is failing to provide a useful reading anyway.

I actually have a gauge guard on hand to get ready for the IFM. Did yours come with 1/4" gauge connection but 1/2" process side? Trying to figure out how to work that back down to 1/4" or return and find the proper piece. Took off the rodi gauge for now. No point in extra possibilities of contaminants. New gauge should be here Monday anyways.

Slapping on that final 1 mic stage this morning before heading to work!

Noticed a bit of a slight leak/drip coming from around the lacl doser. Looks like I have to figure out how to adapt from soft tubing to hard tubing a bit better. Thankfully Its about one drop during the every half hour dosing schedule as some back pressure builds up during the pumping process. Going from a Kamoer Pro2 dosing line to 1/4" RODI style line. Any suggestions?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I actually have a gauge guard on hand to get ready for the IFM. Did yours come with 1/4" gauge connection but 1/2" process side? Trying to figure out how to work that back down to 1/4" or return and find the proper piece. Took off the rodi gauge for now. No point in extra possibilities of contaminants. New gauge should be here Monday anyways.

Slapping on that final 1 mic stage this morning before heading to work!

Noticed a bit of a slight leak/drip coming from around the lacl doser. Looks like I have to figure out how to adapt from soft tubing to hard tubing a bit better. Thankfully Its about one drop during the every half hour dosing schedule as some back pressure builds up during the pumping process. Going from a Kamoer Pro2 dosing line to 1/4" RODI style line. Any suggestions?

For the gauge guard, if you are using the GGME series from Plast-o-matic. They have a 1/2" male NPT process side, and a 1/4" NPT gauge side. I made an adapter using a 1/2" female threaded to slip fitting, with a 1/4" threaded female spigot fitting. That way the gauge guard threads into the 1/2 side and I use a 1/4" to push fitting for the process connection.

To attach your IFM, you will need a 1/4" NPT to 1/4" BSP fitting. The IFM side is NOT NPT. I thought it was NPT for the longest time, but it's not. A BSP fitting threads in all the way and seals with no thread tape required.

To adapt the peristaltic pump, I use hose barb to stem adapters. The barb side comes in various sizes, depending on what hose you are trying to adapt. Previously I had to get them from specialty vendors (like US Plastics), but now most aquarium suppliers have them (like BRS).

If you need a photo or links to any of these let me know and I will post some.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

For the gauge guard, if you are using the GGME series from Plast-o-matic. They have a 1/2" male NPT process side, and a 1/4" NPT gauge side. I made an adapter using a 1/2" female threaded to slip fitting, with a 1/4" threaded female spigot fitting. That way the gauge guard threads into the 1/2 side and I use a 1/4" to push fitting for the process connection.

To attach your IFM, you will need a 1/4" NPT to 1/4" BSP fitting. The IFM side is NOT NPT. I thought it was NPT for the longest time, but it's not. A BSP fitting threads in all the way and seals with no thread tape required.

To adapt the peristaltic pump, I use hose barb to stem adapters. The barb side comes in various sizes, depending on what hose you are trying to adapt. Previously I had to get them from specialty vendors (like US Plastics), but now most aquarium suppliers have them (like BRS).

If you need a photo or links to any of these let me know and I will post some.

Definetely have some odd parts laying around to make all that work but had to get the BSP adapter ordered up. Any good info on filling up the oil side and what type of oil to use?

Are these the adapters? I need ones that go to a bit smaller barbs to be honest.

Mur-lok Stem Adapter Tube x Hose Stem

Mur-lok Stem Adapter Tube x Hose Stem Stem side slides into standard push connect fittings. Barb side is designed for flexible tubing like nylon or clear pvc. Mur-lok RO fittings are the only RO fittings that feature dual EPDM O-rings to ensure a straight leak free fit. These high quality...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Definetely have some odd parts laying around to make all that work but had to get the BSP adapter ordered up. Any good info on filling up the oil side and what type of oil to use?

Are these the adapters? I need ones that go to a bit smaller barbs to be honest.

Mur-lok Stem Adapter Tube x Hose Stem

Mur-lok Stem Adapter Tube x Hose Stem Stem side slides into standard push connect fittings. Barb side is designed for flexible tubing like nylon or clear pvc. Mur-lok RO fittings are the only RO fittings that feature dual EPDM O-rings to ensure a straight leak free fit. These high quality...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

For filling, you can use mineral oil or RODI. Personally I would use RODI.

Hmm, they don't seem to have the 3/16 version of the adapters at BRS. There is a 1/4" stem to 3/16 hose barb version available.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

For filling, you can use mineral oil or RODI. Personally I would use RODI.

Hmm, they don't seem to have the 3/16 version of the adapters at BRS. There is a 1/4" stem to 3/16 hose barb version available.

Got a refillable big canister in today. Sounds very similar to yours as well. Pulled the metal mesh immediately but am thinking I may be able to get away without the metal mesh part as mine has a second layer behind it that is saltwater proof? Attaching photo of mine w/ link.

How do these glass beads look to you? I tried to match your measurements as best as possible but let me know if I should think about a higher or lower size.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Got a refillable big canister in today. Sounds very similar to yours as well. Pulled the metal mesh immediately but am thinking I may be able to get away without the metal mesh part as mine has a second layer behind it that is saltwater proof? Attaching photo of mine w/ link.

How do these glass beads look to you? I tried to match your measurements as best as possible but let me know if I should think about a higher or lower size.

That is the same cartridge that I bought. I pulled the plastic ring support out and replaced the wire mesh with some nylon mesh that I had on hand for making sieves.

As for the glass beads, I am not really sure how small those are. They look pretty good in the photo. As long as they are uniform, round and free from contaminants, I would think they are OK to try.

The ones I use are these ones (made for swimming pools):

Glass Pearls Filter Media

<div style="text-align: justify;">One of the newest filter media on the market, Glass Pearls offer a filtration level comparable to DE. Made from pure glass, the Glass Pearls filter out anything larger than 3 microns, giving you superior quality water.</div>

waterco.us

 

[Coolbobjoe]

That is the same cartridge that I bought. I pulled the plastic ring support out and replaced the wire mesh with some nylon mesh that I had on hand for making sieves.

As for the glass beads, I am not really sure how small those are. They look pretty good in the photo. As long as they are uniform, round and free from contaminants, I would think they are OK to try.

The ones I use are these ones (made for swimming pools):

Glass Pearls Filter Media

<div style="text-align: justify;">One of the newest filter media on the market, Glass Pearls offer a filtration level comparable to DE. Made from pure glass, the Glass Pearls filter out anything larger than 3 microns, giving you superior quality water.</div>

waterco.us

I had actually taken a gander at those during my web searches but got put off by no available pricing. What'd they get ya for a minimum order?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I had actually taken a gander at those during my web searches but put off by no available pricing. What'd they get ya for a minimum order?

I don't really remember. I think I paid $30 - $40 a bag. I bought a pile of bags for my pool filter and ordered an extra bag to use for the tank. I also have one of their Multicyclone filters on my pool. I plan to try one on a tank someday. I think they would have some useful applications.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

You may want to contact them to see if any pool suppliers near you carry their stuff. I should add the prices I quoted earlier are in Canadian $, so U.S $ will be less.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

I don't really remember. I think I paid $30 - $40 a bag. I bought a pile of bags for my pool filter and ordered an extra bag to use for the tank. I also have one of their Multicyclone filters on my pool. I plan to try one on a tank someday. I think they would have some useful applications.

This is my theory behind my shark system I am building. A lot of successful aquariums run fluid media filters and swear by them. Even the oldest public aquarium in the country uses it with recent upgrades!

I have a fluidized floating media barrel running, alongside a DEEP sand bed filter. Those 100 gallons of heavy media will be sufficient for most of the 1,500 gallon system. Granted it will be fairly lightly stocked compared to the 480g reef that needs me to build a phosphate reactor

 

[Coolbobjoe]

For filling, you can use mineral oil or RODI. Personally I would use RODI.

Hmm, they don't seem to have the 3/16 version of the adapters at BRS. There is a 1/4" stem to 3/16 hose barb version available.

Got all the parts in and setup, and realized the sensor doesnt come with a cable, time to play the waiting game to get it turned on finally!

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Got all the parts in and setup, and realized the sensor doesnt come with a cable, time to play the waiting game to get it turned on finally!

Oh, yes you will need a cable. Automation Direct is the best place to get them.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

Oh, yes you will need a cable. Automation Direct is the best place to get them.

Hopefully a quick question for you today as the new cable came in. I took a look at the pinout and noticed two diode looking schematics for the spare two pins after 24v is applied to pins 1and 3. Is this necessary or only for hooking up to some sort of digital I/O monitor?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Those are the outputs. You can configure the pressure sensor to energize the outputs based on the sensed pressure. For purely using as a sensor, you can ignore them.

That being said, the IFM outputs are a very handy feature for doing cool things.

CO2 Tank Auto Switcher

People who run CalRx have to make sure to keep an eye on their CO2 tank and be ready to get it filled on a moment's notice, or if you have a spare full tank, be ready to swap the backup tank for the active one when it runs out. The thing is, CalRx's often end up being a set it and forget it type...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Coolbobjoe]

Those are the outputs. You can configure the pressure sensor to energize the outputs based on the sensed pressure. For purely using as a sensor, you can ignore them.

That being said, the IFM outputs are a very handy feature for doing cool things.

CO2 Tank Auto Switcher

People who run CalRx have to make sure to keep an eye on their CO2 tank and be ready to get it filled on a moment's notice, or if you have a spare full tank, be ready to swap the backup tank for the active one when it runs out. The thing is, CalRx's often end up being a set it and forget it type...

www.reef2reef.com

Got it running and I realized I never asked which model you went with. I got the pn7004 and am wondering if you went with pn7007 for more sensitivity?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I use the PN7007 in my ACR CaRX controller. For that application, the extra resolution of the PN7007 is helpful as my presets all fall within a 1 psi range (4.0 - 5.0 psi).

I was using a PN7004 for the LaCl reactor, while I had it on there. As I mentioned the pressure change was quite modest, 1-2 psi, when clogged up.

A PN7006 or PN7009 will give you 1/2 of the resolution of the PN 7007, but 5 x the resolution of the PN7007.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

I use the PN7007 in my ACR CaRX controller. For that application, the extra resolution of the PN7007 is helpful as my presets all fall within a 1 psi range (4.0 - 5.0 psi).

I was using a PN7004 for the LaCl reactor, while I had it on there. As I mentioned the pressure change was quite modest, 1-2 psi, when clogged up.

A PN7006 or PN7009 will give you 1/2 of the resolution of the PN 7007, but 5 x the resolution of the PN7007.

Well, in less than a week it will be officially setup for a month in its current, and final configuration. But I have yet to see any pressure rising. I had set a once a month alert in Apex Fusion to remind me to check the pleated filter/swap out, but I'm not seeing as much of a buildup. I am running slightly higher flow and possibly slightly lower LaCl input though. I've been within +- 0.02 of 0.12 for half that time though. I think I got most out of my rocks and am basically doing maintenance dosing to keep phosphates in check

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Well, in less than a week it will be officially setup for a month in its current, and final configuration. But I have yet to see any pressure rising. I had set a once a month alert in Apex Fusion to remind me to check the pleated filter/swap out, but I'm not seeing as much of a buildup. I am running slightly higher flow and possibly slightly lower LaCl input though. I've been within +- 0.02 of 0.12 for half that time though. I think I got most out of my rocks and am basically doing maintenance dosing to keep phosphates in check

Hmm, I never used the pressure sensor with a pleated cartridge. I expect you will have to go through a fair bit of LaCl before it gets clogged enough to see a pressure rise. You can sort of track it by monitoring the water level in the canister as it rises higher as lower parts of the pleated filter gets harder for water to flow through.

If your levels are that low, 0.12, you will get increased downward effects on your alklinity. I find that anything under 0.20 ppm PO4, starts to impact alkalinity when LaCl is used. Then again my target range is 0.08 - 0.12 ppm, so I only use it to pull my PO4 down to within reach of my range.

 

[Coolbobjoe]

Full filter swap this weekend. Pleated showed more signs of bacterial sludge than LaCl deposits due to heavy carbon dosing towards the beginning of the first month of use on the reactor. Dang I really like this thing! Second 1 micron pleated filter didn't show much as expected but was a nice safety factor. I did notice a large deposit in my first chamber though! Not sure if its just detritus or if I did get some settlement of precipitated Lanthanum Phosphate? Might not go the mixing route unless I add just "one more stage" in front of everything and let that white pvc tube be the "settlement stage."